3rd Gen parts - I'm afraid we're on our own Gents

[GaryS]

I think it's also that S&W doesn't have a different type of replacement revolver that they are trying to sell to their lucrative public safety clients. The profit margin on the M&P guns is far more than on the 3rd gen guns. That's where S&W is concentrating and it's not so much that they want the 3rd generation guns to go away as they want them to go away from the LE market. As a result, the dinosaurs that lovers of the 3rd gen guns are, are just that much collateral damage.

It's a mistake and I think that if nothing else S&W should consider making small runs of parts from time to time.

Generally speaking, the self loaders by their nature, depend on several parts for reliable function that could actually be considered consumables. Wear items such as recoil springs, mainsprings, magazine springs, and magazine followers. These things weaken or wear out over time as the weapon is used and must be replaced periodically.

A revolver, just isn't subject to these needs. Conversely, an equally well cared for semi auto will still need at least new springs periodically to preserve or restore reliable function.

There are other things that can go wrong on a semi that simply don't apply to a revolver. Chipped or broken extractors or broken ejectors are a couple. And a broken ejector quickly leads to a mangled ejector depressor plunger.

Besides all that... The revolver has been around a great deal longer than the 3rg gens. There is a huge cottage industry supplying NOS and used parts as well as a number of suppliers of aftermarket replacement parts. Not so with the 3rd gens.

All is not lost by any means however. Folks on this forum convinced SpringCo tactical to make a run of the nested spring sets for the compact .40s & .45s and they are very nice springs indeed., Wolff still makes a number of springs. And stuff is still trickling out of Springfield now and again. Small batches of loooong out of stock parts have been mysteriously showing up at Midway the past few months too.

Just think... A few decades ago, the 1911 was about to go the way of the Dodo and now, everybody and his brother are building 1911s and and supplying every part imaginable. I'm optimistic

Cheers
Bill

 

[jrigg14]

i actually called S&W today to ask a couple questions about parts for my model 5906 and right off the bat he got an annoyed tone with me and proceeded to give me nothing but short, smarteleck answers...i guess they are tired of people asking about 3rd gens

 

[nocents]

.i guess they are tired of people asking about 3rd gens

well isn't that just too bad for them......I hope you called back and voiced your displeasure about someones condescending and unprofessional attitude....most CS have voice record archive for at least a short time........there is a reason it's called customer service.........................................and welcome to the forum

 

[GaryS]

The times I've called Customer Service, they've been very helpful. There is some amount of luck of the draw what they will do. I've ordered magazine butt plates and had them sent out for free. I've ordered them and have had to pay.

If you order something and they tell you it's back ordered, they won't have any idea when those parts will come in. In a couple of cases, I've waited months, in others just a couple of weeks.

i actually called S&W today to ask a couple questions about parts for my model 5906 and right off the bat he got an annoyed tone with me and proceeded to give me nothing but short, smarteleck answers...i guess they are tired of people asking about 3rd gens

 

[85V65Sabre]

I guess they are tired of people asking about 3rd gens

You would think if a lot of people are asking about them, that there is a market for parts.

To live outside the law, You gotta give a damn.

 

[jseda]

Maybe it's time for a Class Action Lawsuit?

As a former law enforcement officer, I carried a S&W firearm for 20 years. Now retired, I carry a S&W 5906 daily. Yesterday, during my annual HR-218 re-qualification, the trigger pin almost fell out (from wear?) of the gun after firing the first round! After finding the issue and pushing the pin back in, the pin worked it's way out twice again after firing each of two rounds. The Range Officer had to resort to taping both sides of the trigger pin in order to keep it in place and allow me to continue the course of fire. Also, the right side safety latch has fallen off and the related spring & plunger were lost.

S&W's failure to support their firearms that are supposed to have a "lifetime warranty" regarding mechanical failure, is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Maybe it's time for a Class Action Lawsuit by other 5906 owners with similar negative experiences?

I can only thank GOD that I didn't have to use this firearm, which I previously completely relied upon in case of a need to defend myself or my family, before this incident! When the trigger pin failure occurred, I immediately realized that this mechanical failure had actually placed me and my family at substantial risk.

I have been a loyal S&W gun owner since 1970. However, I am extremely upset about this entire matter, as I take my safety and the safety of my family very seriously. S&W also needs to take the safety of its customers and their families very seriously and address this pressing need by the thousands of customers who own a 3rd Generation firearm and rely on it.

I will be returning my firearm to S&W for the needed repairs and will update this Forum accordingly. If you have experienced a similar "failure" type of incident regarding your S&W 5906, please take the time to let me know.

 

[ColColt]

First time I've heard of this problem...scary indeed. Any idea as to how many rounds that pistol has fired over time?

 

[ColColt]

It seems there was another fellow who had the same problem not long ago.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/357667-5906-trigger-pin-loose.html

 

[Nitrous SSC]

The trigger pin fell out on my dad's 4013TSW the first day he fired it. But at the time they were still in production and they fixed it.

Considering I have a safe full of 3rd gens I have noticed if I do have any issue getting parts is hard. I called about a recoil spring for my 1076. They sent me one that was (I'm not kidding) 12" long. Completely the wrong part. I said screw it and ordered Wolff springs.

Reading this makes me want to start selling the 3rd gens I have that I don't shoot much.

 

[ladder13]

What, these "tanks" are falling apart?





j/k

Everything mechanical can have issues. Better go check my 3rd G's

 

[surfgun]

What, these "tanks" are falling apart

A loose pin that could take one swing with a center punch and with a hammer on each side will fix that pistol for the next twenty some years. Even a tank deserves a few seconds of preventive maintenance.

 

[smithscott]

As someone who likes older designs, finding necessary maintenance and repair parts is always an issue. It is the price one pays for wanting to shoot guns that were made when skilled labor was inexpensive and things were built to last. As an example, I am a huge fan of the Remington Model 11 shotgun. It has not been made since 1947; however, many of the parts can be found. I can still get new springs from Wolff, and I expect that Wolff will provide the maintenance springs necessary for the 3rd Generation for decades to come.

For older guns, the best way to get repair parts is to buy whole spare guns. I can buy a decent Model 11 for $350 or just the barrel for $220. Rather have the whole gun as it is more spare parts. Same thing with the 3rd Generation guns. I just found a 5903 in great shape for $320. That gun will provide me spare parts for my 5906 or allow me to carry the lighter 5903. In any event, it is more cost effective than buying a spare upper from Numrich for almost $250 shipped. $70 difference for the entire lower and its parts. Plus I can shoot the spare.

Same reason for my recent purchase of a 3914 LEO trade-in gun. Spare parts for the two 3913 my daughter and I use.

I figure I can scrounge up the cash to add one or two 3rd Generation guns to the safe per year. That should keep us shooting for decades.

 

[DanP7]

i actually called S&W today to ask a couple questions about parts for my model 5906 and right off the bat he got an annoyed tone with me and proceeded to give me nothing but short, smarteleck answers...i guess they are tired of people asking about 3rd gens

And what were the answers......?

 

[DanP7]

As a former law enforcement officer, I carried a S&W firearm for 20 years. Now retired, I carry a S&W 5906 daily. Yesterday, during my annual HR-218 re-qualification, the trigger pin almost fell out (from wear?) of the gun after firing the first round! After finding the issue and pushing the pin back in, the pin worked it's way out twice again after firing each of two rounds. The Range Officer had to resort to taping both sides of the trigger pin in order to keep it in place and allow me to continue the course of fire. Also, the right side safety latch has fallen off and the related spring & plunger were lost.

S&W's failure to support their firearms that are supposed to have a "lifetime warranty" regarding mechanical failure, is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Maybe it's time for a Class Action Lawsuit by other 5906 owners with similar negative experiences?

I can only thank GOD that I didn't have to use this firearm, which I previously completely relied upon in case of a need to defend myself or my family, before this incident! When the trigger pin failure occurred, I immediately realized that this mechanical failure had actually placed me and my family at substantial risk.

I have been a loyal S&W gun owner since 1970. However, I am extremely upset about this entire matter, as I take my safety and the safety of my family very seriously. S&W also needs to take the safety of its customers and their families very seriously and address this pressing need by the thousands of customers who own a 3rd Generation firearm and rely on it.

I will be returning my firearm to S&W for the needed repairs and will update this Forum accordingly. If you have experienced a similar "failure" type of incident regarding your S&W 5906, please take the time to let me know.

Ah yes....the old American standby....Corporate tort cases...... That will get S&W to start making hammer pins again! It would be interesting to see the arguments made against S&W for this. It would be even more interestin to consider the post-settlement reaction of S&W, who would likely alter all consumer facing warranties and policies heavily in their favor and with 30lbs of boilerplate.

Meanwhile, Smith will make your gun right. If not, there is a whole world of options remaining for you on the open market.


The knee-jerk reaction to one conversation with ONE customer service rep continues to grow more and more ridiculous every time I check this thread. S&W is going to help us as much as they can, but don't expect them to build or contract supplies for small parts infinitely waiting for some guy to break a part after putting his (most likely previously owned by numerous agencies or individuals) gun back together with a hammer. by all accounts here, S&W is exhausting every option to please the gun's current owner regardless of their agreement with the factory when buying it. In the most extreme cases, the guns are being replaced with new production models (shield/M&P), which could be readily sold to fund the purchase of the large number of like new third gens remaining on the used market.

Let's keep our heads on guys.

Edit: I don't want to make light of what could be a very serious failure, but I question why this wasn't previously detected. I really hope your gun is able to be fixed. I don't see why it wouldn't be able to, as noted a quick punch can fix this unless there is some other underlying cause.

 

[GaryS]

I laugh derisively when people blather on about "class action suits". Unless there is a lot of money to be made by the lawyers very few of these get off the ground.

I received a settlement from the recent Toyota class action suit. My check was $26.00. Since I didn't have anything actually wrong with my truck, I'm not sure what the money is for.

A few years ago I received my part of a settlement for a law suit against AT&T cellular. $1.00. Which was okay, since I never used their service, but I think my son did when he was in high school.

I imagine that the law firm that worked on these cases received a much larger pay out than that.

I know a guy who is pursuing a class action law suit against Uniden electronics because he thinks they sold defective scanners. He couldn't find a lawyer who would take the case on contingency, so he is paying about $1,000.00 per month. Which means that the lawyer is spending 3 or so hours a month on this case. I wonder what his pay out will be?

The only people who are getting any significant pay outs from class action suits are people who suffered serious medical harm. Asbestos, tobacco, and some medications.

Have you trigger pin staked at both ends, and go back and put another 20K rounds through it.

 

[gunhobbit]

I laugh derisively when people blather on about "class action suits". Unless there is a lot of money to be made by the lawyers very few of these get off the ground.

I received a settlement from the recent Toyota class action suit. My check was $26.00. Since I didn't have anything actually wrong with my truck, I'm not sure what the money is for.

A few years ago I received my part of a settlement for a law suit against AT&T cellular. $1.00. Which was okay, since I never used their service, but I think my son did when he was in high school.

I imagine that the law firm that worked on these cases received a much larger pay out than that.

I know a guy who is pursuing a class action law suit against Uniden electronics because he thinks they sold defective scanners. He couldn't find a lawyer who would take the case on contingency, so he is paying about $1,000.00 per month. Which means that the lawyer is spending 3 or so hours a month on this case. I wonder what his pay out will be?

The only people who are getting any significant pay outs from class action suits are people who suffered serious medical harm. Asbestos, tobacco, and some medications.

Have you trigger pin staked at both ends, and go back and put another 20K rounds through it.

Not to mention a thousand bucks a month buys a LOT of skilled machinist time to hand carve you a new part from a block of metal, I'd bet.

 

[JohnHL]

Please put that hammer and center punch down.
The trigger pin is retained by the plunger and spring in the trigger assembly.
Go hammer on something other than a pistol.

John

 

[vigil617]

Please put that hammer and center punch down.
The trigger pin is retained by the plunger and spring in the trigger assembly.
Go hammer on something other than a pistol.

John

And besides, most gun parts are through-hardened or case-hardened steels, which either won't react to staking or will react by going "pop."

 

[Maine Garda]

If anyone here needs 3913/3914 parts I just posted a small listing.

 

[GaryS]

Just received a notice from Midway that they have 3913/14 grip pins in. Supplies are limited.

ETA: I just checked Brownells and they have them as well. Price is better if you have a dealer account.

 

[captain92]

I wanted to take a minute and offer kudos to one of the members here. I have been searching in vain for a spare steel guide rod for a 4506/1006. Was searching through this thread, found post #114 by peh_7

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...fraid-were-our-own-gents-3.html#post137991313

The post was made almost a year ago, but I took the chance and reached out in hopes he was still making these rods. Who I met was a very nice, professional gentleman named Paul who helped me out by making two stainless guide rods for 4506/1006. I installed one in my 1006, shot 50 flawless rounds this weekend of Underwood 180gr without a hiccup.

If anyone here wants stainless steel guide rods for 3rd Gen autos, Paul will help you out. These aren't cheap, however to upgrade the aluminum rod in the 45 and 10mm, or to replace a cracked rod, Paul is filling a niche, and the quality and polish of these are second to none.

ETA: Link should take you straight to the post, if not, scroll to #114 in this thread, he also has a picture comparing the aluminum staked rod with the factory stainless that is in the 4006 TSW. The rods I received look even better than the stainless one in the pics, with the plunger as well!

 

[s&wlover]

I have a couple dozen semi's, mostly 3rd gen and a couple of 2nd gen. I started stockpiling parts a few years ago and have bought whole sets of internal parts and others off ebay. There are often sets posted. Everything I have gotten always seem to be in good shape. I made up a bin box with extractors, disconnects, hammers, etc. Many of the parts interchange between models. I also bought whatever I could when Midway and Brownells still had parts. It is very sad that S&W decided to quit making parts. I could really use a set of new grips for my CS-45 (very hard to find). You can never have enough spare parts!

 

[s&wlover]

Well, it looks like Wolf makes he bigger springs for these, good chance they may step up in S&W stops making the smaller ones. Metal parts may be harder to come by....

One way or another it will work itself out. If there's money to be made, someone will make it!

Wolf recoil springs work well. I have found it best to stay close to standard strength.

 

[Hill_Country]

It is very sad that S&W decided to quit making parts.

Do you know this to be a fact or just something you heard?

Certainly, S&W is not making frames, but repair parts appear regularly (and immediately sell out) from S&W and several distributors. Part of the problem is that internet rumors like this cause people to hoard parts they don't need and further contribute to shortages. This is the kind of thing that allows fleabay sellers to ask $175 for a mag.

The S&W website says they no longer support long guns from the 1980's, but there is no indication that they are not supporting their pistols. Go figure.

BTW, welcome to the forum. Good bunch of people here, but please don't feed the parts paranoia.

 

[85V65Sabre]

Do you know this to be a fact or just something you heard?

.

Thread name:
3rd gen parts- I'm afraid we're on our own gents.
Over 230 posts.

Do you know something that no one else dose?

 

[Fastbolt]

Just because they don't have a regular timeline for reordering or making new 3rd gen parts & assemblies, and list some parts as obsolete, and the parts list is in the older system that isn't as easily searchable, that doesn't mean they're totally out of the business of supporting the 3rd gen's.

It doesn't mean they can't repair the simpler issues that can sometimes occur with older & well-worn guns, either.

Besides, there's still a respectable number of agencies who haven't yet given up their 3rd gen's.

 

[Hill_Country]

Thread name:
3rd gen parts- I'm afraid we're on our own gents.
Over 230 posts.

Do you know something that no one else dose?

No, its not just me. Many people on this forum know that S&W continues to supply repair parts for their pistols. They don't seem to maintain the inventory levels they once did and the *rumor* is that it is a corporate decision to reduce - not eliminate - their investment in repair parts for out of production guns. Bottom line is that everyone seems to get the repair parts they need albeit with some delay.

While some rumor mongering is innocent, (even some S&W customer service people are guilty) some FleaBay merchants make a nice profit selling overpriced parts someone believes are out of production. The classic example is a 10mm mag priced at $175 which someone mentioned a few days ago. If you don't mind waiting a while, you can get the same thing new for $35 from S&W, Midway or Brownells.

And the problem is self-perpetuating in that it encourages hoarding of repair parts and that exacerbates the parts shortages. It does no one any good to spread unverified information unless they are "shorting" the sale of repair parts.

 

[85V65Sabre]

I agree, it takes a certain kind of "special" to pay $175 for a $35 mag.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

The classic example is a 10mm mag priced at $175 which someone mentioned a few days ago. If you don't mind waiting a while, you can get the same thing new for $35 from S&W, Midway or Brownells.

Well, not from Midway anymore. I had those on my notification list but saw an alert from them that they are now "Status: Discontinued", as is several other parts I was watching for from them. I think they gave up holding their breath for S&W to supply some.

.

 

[DanP7]

Thread name:
3rd gen parts- I'm afraid we're on our own gents.
Over 230 posts.

Do you know something that no one else dose?

I don't think anyone knows. And knowing how large, older corporations work, I bet smith doesn't exactly know what they have and what they can do either. But they probably will continue to support the guns as long as possible. Internal memos saying that they want to stop sending parts out for third gens and have them ins sent in often translate to "winding down / discontinued" once the CS rep tries to relay the policy to a customer. It's reasonable to desire a more clear cut policy from smith, but I don't think we are going to get it.

At least half of the 230+ posts were hand-wringing and statements of "never again will I buy a S&W..." Because of what "some guy on the Internet said a customer service guy at S&W said was true...". Lots of chicken little, lots of playing telephone, not much else.

It is pretty clear that S&W has not completely given up supporting these guns. Obviously not a huge focus of their business right now, nor should it be. Outside from a few isolated incidents, Smith hasn't let anyone down, or failed to fulfill implied warranty to those that have sent their gun in for service.

I'm only buying more third gens. If anyone wants to get out of them, I'll look for your posts in the for sale section.


I thought a lot of you guys were either seasoned LE or retired LE? Let's do like Joe Friday says...."just the facts ma'am..."