I guess if you shoot the wheels off a gun you have to worry but average shooting of these fine pistols I don't think it's a huge concern. They are extremely well made and built to last so don't fret and if something does break one of our brethren can help I'm sure.
3rd Gen parts - I'm afraid we're on our own Gents
- Thread starter BMCM
- Start date
I guess if you shoot the wheels off a gun you have to worry but average shooting of these fine pistols I don't think it's a huge concern. They are extremely well made and built to last so don't fret and if something does break one of our brethren can help I'm sure.
Since this thread has suddenly come back to life, I decided I should tell you good folks the rest of the story.Had my first lousy experience with S&W CS on a 3rd Gen issue. I recently bought a 3913 with pre-recall grips and, just like I had been successful doing with another 3rd Gen, I called S&W CS to obtain a pair of post-recall grips. No problem at all the first time... but with this 3913 it was a disappointment.
It started well when I was told that my gun still qualified for the replacement grips, but then I was told they would be "take-offs" off a used gun that was being stripped for parts. I was assured that the grips were not damaged. But then I received them a few days later, and they were pretty badly beat up... chipped, marred, etc... and worst of all, they had a hairline crack right where the original grips were supposed to have been prone to failure.Not too cool.
I called CS back today and told them that the grips they sent were kind of shabby and, in fact, cracked at the bottom left rear edge. After some unhelpful remarks about 3rd Gens and a long wait, the CS guy told me that no new ones were available anymore and so I was out of luck.
The irony of all this is that Brownells had listed 3913 grips as being in stock last week... and I had back-ordered them prior to that just in case S&W CS couldn't or wouldn't come through for me... but Brownells failed to process my backorder.Now they are out of stock again.
Looks like I place the Brownells backorder again as I refuse to pay a king's ransom to Robertson Trading Post or the folks on eBay. Maybe I'll try a Midway backorder as well.
Has this latest encounter with CS dampened my burning lust for collecting more 3rd Gens? Yeah, I think it has a little.
It turned out that the crappy, used chipped & cracked grips that S&W CS sent me as a post-recall replacement for the pre-recall grips on my 3913... weren't even the right grips for a 3913.
I don't know which 3rd Gen they fit, but they sure as heck didn't even come close to the size of my 3913 grips. 
They are somewhat taller and much wider. So adding insult to injury, not only were the grips a laughably damaged (almost insulting) mess... but they weren't even off a 3913 in the first place!
Not even close! 
Man, I really hit the incompetence jackpot with S&W CS that day! The good news, however, is that Brownell's finally did come through for me after a long, seemingly endless back-order wait.
The 3913 now has its correct post-recall grips. Halleluiah!!! Patience is a virtue.
Randy Lee
Member
So much for the "lifetime warranty" that so many go on about.
Hopefully Apex Tactical will recieve some Emails from 3rd gen owners about this.
Apex has made a lot of money capitalizing on the deficiencies of the products made by the current company calling itself S&W. Maybe they will help us keep the 3rd gen guns operating.
Wasn't there another company that wanted to make the dual recoil springs for us? IIRC their rep wanted an un-used set. Anyone still in contact with him? Regards 18DAI
I just sent an Email to Wilson Combat too. They recently started customizing and supporting Beretta 92's. Some may want to encourage Wilson to consider the 3rd gen guns too. C&S might not be a bad idea either. Their founder is a longtime fan of the 3rd gens.
Hello All,
I'm a little late to the game, but it goes without saying that I am a huge fan of the third gen pistols. Much to the dismay (and perhaps, frustration) of my business partner, one of my pet projects is coming up with a few new replacement parts for these pistols. While I don't have a lot of details for you at the moment, I can say that I plan on making a hammer and sear set first for a 5906 project gun that should evolve into a drop in kit. I have worked on enough third generation pistols to know that they are exceptionally well designed and as durable as any pistol currently made- perhaps even more so.
The problem I encounter is that there are so many variants, models and calibers that I cannot appease everyone's wishes for parts. I have to narrow the scope of products we can manufacture.
That being said, I will start with the 9mm/.40 S&W framed guns like the 3900,5900 and 4000 series guns and see what I can do. The good news is that at least some parts are still being shipped from the factory. I also agree with what Fastbolt stated regarding how few parts seem to require replacement, even on well used pistols (assuming regular maintenance and reasonable velocity ammunition is used).
We shall see what I can come up with...
-Randy
Parts are sort of trickling in. Last week I received two 39xx series magazine followers and four magazine springs from Midway. A few weeks ago I received flat magazine butt plates from S&W.
I don't know if S&W is just digging through miscellaneous parts bins and finding long forgotten NOS, or if they are having their suppliers make small runs of some parts.
I don't know if S&W is just digging through miscellaneous parts bins and finding long forgotten NOS, or if they are having their suppliers make small runs of some parts.
I'd reckon that if you're the original owner, and you can prove it, that Smith and Wesson would honor the lifetime warranty. It would probably involve a new pistol.
That said, I'm late to this party as I just purchased a 5904 myself. Wolf seems to have lots of the springy stuff. Pro-Mag and Mec Gar make magazines.
I can understand this from a business standpoint. No company wants to make a product that will work without ever failing. This is the principle of forced obsolescence. In order for them to remain profitable, they've got to keep selling new units. They can't just rely on new customers for this; although it's important to get them. They also need repeat business. Repeat business is a major part of a company's bottom line. If they setup their products to where they would never have to be replaced, they'd have no repeat business.
Apple has mastered this. They are a hardware company & not a software company. Their profitability requires that new hardware be sold. There's only so much new business that can be drummed up. They are highly dependent upon repeat buyers. One way they do this is by making older versions of their hardware incompatible with the latest OS and related applications.
Businesses are fast heading in the direction of moving away from a single purchase to a subscription model. Microsoft did this with Office. It's a way to sustain long-term money flow.
Microsoft eventually stops supporting older versions of their software as it is just too damaging to the bottom line. No one is investing in the old software. Therefore, continued support is largely a waste of money after a certain point. It's the same with Smith and Wesson.
How many times did Smith & Wesson, and all other gun makers, nearly go out of business because the military bought all the guns they needed and didn't order the newer models? A lot.
This is all I see Smith doing. It stinks, but it's the nature of the beast when it comes to large scale manufacturing and sales.
Of course, if I had it my way, Smith and Wesson wouldn't have scrapped the designs from that era. They would just keep using those. However, they need to have the same "sex appeal" that the other manufacturers have in order to remain competitive. Some product lines need to die in order for that to happen. We can just call it manufacturing "triage."
That said, I'm late to this party as I just purchased a 5904 myself. Wolf seems to have lots of the springy stuff. Pro-Mag and Mec Gar make magazines.
I can understand this from a business standpoint. No company wants to make a product that will work without ever failing. This is the principle of forced obsolescence. In order for them to remain profitable, they've got to keep selling new units. They can't just rely on new customers for this; although it's important to get them. They also need repeat business. Repeat business is a major part of a company's bottom line. If they setup their products to where they would never have to be replaced, they'd have no repeat business.
Apple has mastered this. They are a hardware company & not a software company. Their profitability requires that new hardware be sold. There's only so much new business that can be drummed up. They are highly dependent upon repeat buyers. One way they do this is by making older versions of their hardware incompatible with the latest OS and related applications.
Businesses are fast heading in the direction of moving away from a single purchase to a subscription model. Microsoft did this with Office. It's a way to sustain long-term money flow.
Microsoft eventually stops supporting older versions of their software as it is just too damaging to the bottom line. No one is investing in the old software. Therefore, continued support is largely a waste of money after a certain point. It's the same with Smith and Wesson.
How many times did Smith & Wesson, and all other gun makers, nearly go out of business because the military bought all the guns they needed and didn't order the newer models? A lot.
This is all I see Smith doing. It stinks, but it's the nature of the beast when it comes to large scale manufacturing and sales.
Of course, if I had it my way, Smith and Wesson wouldn't have scrapped the designs from that era. They would just keep using those. However, they need to have the same "sex appeal" that the other manufacturers have in order to remain competitive. Some product lines need to die in order for that to happen. We can just call it manufacturing "triage."
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carbuncle
Member
Over the last few months I have made peace with the sunsetting of the Third Gen guns, but have resovled to continue collecting and shooting them at the expense of buying current-production guns from Glock or Sig. So, I hope to at least double my current collect of 3 Gs over the next couple/few years, adding a 4506, 1006 and 3913 to the 5906, 6906 and 4006 in the safe. This morning finds me considering replacing my PPS with a CS40...
Midway notified me that they are shipping S&W magazine springs this week. OEM, not Wolff. So, there are some parts around.
I'm with you. I'm not much of a collector, but I shoot my 3913 and 915 all the time. I'm sure their service life will be longer than mine, but if not at least I'll be the guy that got to shoot them.
Dave
OP
Generally speaking, the self loaders by their nature, depend on several parts for reliable function that could actually be considered consumables. Wear items such as recoil springs, mainsprings, magazine springs, and magazine followers. These things weaken or wear out over time as the weapon is used and must be replaced periodically.
A revolver, just isn't subject to these needs. Conversely, an equally well cared for semi auto will still need at least new springs periodically to preserve or restore reliable function.
There are other things that can go wrong on a semi that simply don't apply to a revolver. Chipped or broken extractors or broken ejectors are a couple. And a broken ejector quickly leads to a mangled ejector depressor plunger.
Besides all that... The revolver has been around a great deal longer than the 3rg gens. There is a huge cottage industry supplying NOS and used parts as well as a number of suppliers of aftermarket replacement parts. Not so with the 3rd gens.
All is not lost by any means however. Folks on this forum convinced SpringCo tactical to make a run of the nested spring sets for the compact .40s & .45s and they are very nice springs indeed., Wolff still makes a number of springs. And stuff is still trickling out of Springfield now and again. Small batches of loooong out of stock parts have been mysteriously showing up at Midway the past few months too.
Just think... A few decades ago, the 1911 was about to go the way of the Dodo and now, everybody and his brother are building 1911s and and supplying every part imaginable. I'm optimistic
Cheers
Bill
I think it's also that S&W doesn't have a different type of replacement revolver that they are trying to sell to their lucrative public safety clients. The profit margin on the M&P guns is far more than on the 3rd gen guns. That's where S&W is concentrating and it's not so much that they want the 3rd generation guns to go away as they want them to go away from the LE market. As a result, the dinosaurs that lovers of the 3rd gen guns are, are just that much collateral damage.
It's a mistake and I think that if nothing else S&W should consider making small runs of parts from time to time.
It's a mistake and I think that if nothing else S&W should consider making small runs of parts from time to time.
Generally speaking, the self loaders by their nature, depend on several parts for reliable function that could actually be considered consumables. Wear items such as recoil springs, mainsprings, magazine springs, and magazine followers. These things weaken or wear out over time as the weapon is used and must be replaced periodically.
A revolver, just isn't subject to these needs. Conversely, an equally well cared for semi auto will still need at least new springs periodically to preserve or restore reliable function.
There are other things that can go wrong on a semi that simply don't apply to a revolver. Chipped or broken extractors or broken ejectors are a couple. And a broken ejector quickly leads to a mangled ejector depressor plunger.
Besides all that... The revolver has been around a great deal longer than the 3rg gens. There is a huge cottage industry supplying NOS and used parts as well as a number of suppliers of aftermarket replacement parts. Not so with the 3rd gens.
All is not lost by any means however. Folks on this forum convinced SpringCo tactical to make a run of the nested spring sets for the compact .40s & .45s and they are very nice springs indeed., Wolff still makes a number of springs. And stuff is still trickling out of Springfield now and again. Small batches of loooong out of stock parts have been mysteriously showing up at Midway the past few months too.
Just think... A few decades ago, the 1911 was about to go the way of the Dodo and now, everybody and his brother are building 1911s and and supplying every part imaginable. I'm optimistic
Cheers
Bill
i actually called S&W today to ask a couple questions about parts for my model 5906 and right off the bat he got an annoyed tone with me and proceeded to give me nothing but short, smarteleck answers...i guess they are tired of people asking about 3rd gens
nocents
Member
.i guess they are tired of people asking about 3rd gens
well isn't that just too bad for them......I hope you called back and voiced your displeasure about someones condescending and unprofessional attitude....most CS have voice record archive for at least a short time........there is a reason it's called customer service.........................................and welcome to the forum
The times I've called Customer Service, they've been very helpful. There is some amount of luck of the draw what they will do. I've ordered magazine butt plates and had them sent out for free. I've ordered them and have had to pay.
If you order something and they tell you it's back ordered, they won't have any idea when those parts will come in. In a couple of cases, I've waited months, in others just a couple of weeks.
If you order something and they tell you it's back ordered, they won't have any idea when those parts will come in. In a couple of cases, I've waited months, in others just a couple of weeks.
i actually called S&W today to ask a couple questions about parts for my model 5906 and right off the bat he got an annoyed tone with me and proceeded to give me nothing but short, smarteleck answers...i guess they are tired of people asking about 3rd gens
85V65Sabre
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I guess they are tired of people asking about 3rd gens
You would think if a lot of people are asking about them, that there is a market for parts.
To live outside the law, You gotta give a damn.
jseda
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Maybe it's time for a Class Action Lawsuit?
As a former law enforcement officer, I carried a S&W firearm for 20 years. Now retired, I carry a S&W 5906 daily. Yesterday, during my annual HR-218 re-qualification, the trigger pin almost fell out (from wear?) of the gun after firing the first round! After finding the issue and pushing the pin back in, the pin worked it's way out twice again after firing each of two rounds. The Range Officer had to resort to taping both sides of the trigger pin in order to keep it in place and allow me to continue the course of fire. Also, the right side safety latch has fallen off and the related spring & plunger were lost.
S&W's failure to support their firearms that are supposed to have a "lifetime warranty" regarding mechanical failure, is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Maybe it's time for a Class Action Lawsuit by other 5906 owners with similar negative experiences?
I can only thank GOD that I didn't have to use this firearm, which I previously completely relied upon in case of a need to defend myself or my family, before this incident! When the trigger pin failure occurred, I immediately realized that this mechanical failure had actually placed me and my family at substantial risk.
I have been a loyal S&W gun owner since 1970. However, I am extremely upset about this entire matter, as I take my safety and the safety of my family very seriously. S&W also needs to take the safety of its customers and their families very seriously and address this pressing need by the thousands of customers who own a 3rd Generation firearm and rely on it.
I will be returning my firearm to S&W for the needed repairs and will update this Forum accordingly. If you have experienced a similar "failure" type of incident regarding your S&W 5906, please take the time to let me know.
As a former law enforcement officer, I carried a S&W firearm for 20 years. Now retired, I carry a S&W 5906 daily. Yesterday, during my annual HR-218 re-qualification, the trigger pin almost fell out (from wear?) of the gun after firing the first round! After finding the issue and pushing the pin back in, the pin worked it's way out twice again after firing each of two rounds. The Range Officer had to resort to taping both sides of the trigger pin in order to keep it in place and allow me to continue the course of fire. Also, the right side safety latch has fallen off and the related spring & plunger were lost.
S&W's failure to support their firearms that are supposed to have a "lifetime warranty" regarding mechanical failure, is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Maybe it's time for a Class Action Lawsuit by other 5906 owners with similar negative experiences?
I can only thank GOD that I didn't have to use this firearm, which I previously completely relied upon in case of a need to defend myself or my family, before this incident! When the trigger pin failure occurred, I immediately realized that this mechanical failure had actually placed me and my family at substantial risk.
I have been a loyal S&W gun owner since 1970. However, I am extremely upset about this entire matter, as I take my safety and the safety of my family very seriously. S&W also needs to take the safety of its customers and their families very seriously and address this pressing need by the thousands of customers who own a 3rd Generation firearm and rely on it.
I will be returning my firearm to S&W for the needed repairs and will update this Forum accordingly. If you have experienced a similar "failure" type of incident regarding your S&W 5906, please take the time to let me know.
It seems there was another fellow who had the same problem not long ago.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/357667-5906-trigger-pin-loose.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/357667-5906-trigger-pin-loose.html
Nitrous SSC
Member
The trigger pin fell out on my dad's 4013TSW the first day he fired it. But at the time they were still in production and they fixed it.
Considering I have a safe full of 3rd gens I have noticed if I do have any issue getting parts is hard. I called about a recoil spring for my 1076. They sent me one that was (I'm not kidding) 12" long. Completely the wrong part. I said screw it and ordered Wolff springs.
Reading this makes me want to start selling the 3rd gens I have that I don't shoot much.
Considering I have a safe full of 3rd gens I have noticed if I do have any issue getting parts is hard. I called about a recoil spring for my 1076. They sent me one that was (I'm not kidding) 12" long. Completely the wrong part. I said screw it and ordered Wolff springs.
Reading this makes me want to start selling the 3rd gens I have that I don't shoot much.
What, these "tanks" are falling apart?
j/k
Everything mechanical can have issues. Better go check my 3rd G's
j/kEverything mechanical can have issues. Better go check my 3rd G's
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