3rd Gen parts - I'm afraid we're on our own Gents

[P33v3]

I have to agree. Those were near and dear to my heart and had I known the equipment that made those bullets would break down and Speer not be able to get parts for it would bring about it's demise I would have stocked up.

I still have a box of those and the ones Corbon made at 1050 fps. Speer use to offer those bullets as components for reloading...still have some of those as well and jealously guarded. I have eight of those in my 4506 tucked under my pillow. We'll never see them again, unfortunately.

Agreed, I still have a box or two of them tucked away. Great bullet.

 

[1775usmarine]

Anyone know if barrels are still being produced and or where I can find some? I would like to get one of each for my 3rd geners so I can pass them on down when I bite the big one.

 

[J. W.]

I have to agree. Those were near and dear to my heart and had I known the equipment that made those bullets would break down and Speer not be able to get parts for it would bring about it's demise I would have stocked up.



I still have a box of those and the ones Corbon made at 1050 fps. Speer use to offer those bullets as components for reloading...still have some of those as well and jealously guarded. I have eight of those in my 4506 tucked under my pillow. We'll never see them again, unfortunately.

I've got a box of Flying Ashtrays as loaded by Corbon for the .45 Colt. I don't have the box in front of me at the moment, but I believe they're rated for 1200 FPS. Bet one or two of those would ruin a bad guy's day in a massive way!


Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

 

[TercGen]

TercGen, sent you a PM.

Thanks Fastbolt, email replied to, and sorry for the length.

 

[Jaymo]

I have decided that I will NEVER buy another 3rd gen Smith (once I get my layaway 5906 paid off), unless I find one I like for sale.

I feel the need for some 3rd gen 39 and 45 goodness.
I'm not really worried about them breaking, but I hope we can get parts for them if it happens.

My previous post was half facetious, in case anyone couldn't tell.
I was serious about dropping the jamomatic 15 and 1911 and the Sigmas and glorified Sigmas.
The only centerfire autopistols Smith needs to make are the 10, 39, 40, 45, 59, and 69 series.
After all, what more could you want from an autopistol?
Hell-for-stout, reliable to a fault, eats any ammo/bullet profile.
What more could I ask?


I have an idea.
Perhaps those who have ordered/attempted to order parts from the mother ship could compile a list of names of CS reps who did not give them a "pat on the back, and better luck next time".
These fine folks are the ones we need to speak with, when ordering parts, not the ones who tell us we're SOL.

Or, compile a list of the CS reps who can't be bothered with us little people.
That way, we know who to avoid.

I need a trigger play spring and rivet for my 6906. The right side leg is broken/missing.
Don't know if my 5906 needs one, or not. It's still in layaway jail.

Anyhoo, Numrich has the springs, but not the rivets.
Plus, I don't know if the springs they have are new or used.


Funny thing, I'm such a fan of the Novak low mount sights used on the 3rd gen pistols that I was telling a buddy that I want to mill my 1911 for them.
He replied that once the dovetails are cut for Novak sights, you can't use any other sights on that gun (as if I didn't already know that).

My reply to him was "If I have Novaks, why in the HELL would I WANT any other sights?"

 

[TercGen]

Jaymo, I've been picking up trigger play springs and rivets whenever available lately, and finally will have a decent amount of each for some broken ones and spare parts.

As of yesterday, S&W had at least the rivets in stock, but I did not ask about trigger play springs. I'd recommend ordering the Numrich springs you need, and calling S&W for the rivets in the morning.

Good luck!

 

[Jaymo]

I called to order trigger play springs and rivets.
They wouldn't even back order them for me.
They gave me Jack First's phone # and told me, "Good luck".

Jack First didn't have them, either. They said they're on back order from Smith.

No joy. No joy, at all.

I was even more SOL on 52-1 extractors and magazines.

Getting very frustrated.

 

[Fastbolt]

As an armorer, I've long suspected the occasional (not many) broken trigger play springs I've seen were probably more the result of improper & inattentive cleaning practices than anything else.

When you watch people standing around a cleaning station, taking the narrow end of plastic brushes and SHOVING them down into the narrow part of the frame above the front of the drawbar, you start to wonder about such things.

Then, there's probably some folks who think it's necessary to keep "adjusting" the angle of the springs to reduce the "click" that may sometimes happen when the trigger ears pop up above the drawbar's v-notch and are pulled back down during a trigger press.

I can't exactly put a number to the broken springs I've replaced over the years, which includes now only maintained my personally-owned 3rd gen's and those of friends and family, but more than a thousand older 3rd gen's and newer TSW's I've helped maintain as in-service issued weapons.

I'd be surprised if it ran to more than a couple dozen instances, though.

I had one break in one of my well-used issued 6906's sometime during the course of 2 range sessions (during which I fired more than 800+ rounds). The gun probably didn't have more than 10-12K rounds fired through it by that time ... and I didn't even notice the broken spring (both sides were gone) until cleaning the gun after the 2 days were done.

When you're running the guns hard & fast for demanding training & drills, focusing on threat target identification, movement and demanding shot strings ... you tend not to notice the subtleties of the SA trigger recovery. (Shooting to trigger recovery, versus to trigger reset.)

Then again, I had a family member experience 2 almost back-to-back broken springs in a lightly used 3913 ... at which point I told him to stop "adjusting" the spring to try and create "perfect" tension in the SA trigger mode.

I remember when I learned from a friend of mine in the CHP (also served as a weapons officer in his assigned offices) that the CHP eventually decided to remove the trigger play springs and drill out the rivet holes in the drawbar heads (so the spring couldn't be replaced, I was told) ... and then ordered their new 4006TSW's produced without a trigger play spring.

I also remember chuckling when I first learned why the drawbars used in the DAO 3rd gen guns had trigger play springs. Why, right? No single action trigger pull.

The reason given was that it was simpler to just pull drawbars from one bin during production, instead of trying to keep drawbars without the springs separate for occasional DAO production runs. Easier to just use the drawbars used in TDA guns in the DAO guns. the trigger play spring simply served no practical purpose in the DAO guns.

FWIW, whenever I ordered a couple extra springs (or asked for them during an armorer class, as they were available for armorer training ), I always tried to get 2 rivets for each spring. The little rivets are far too easy to drop and lose, or damage via inattentive installation.

 

[TTSH]

I have decided that I will NEVER buy another 3rd gen Smith... unless I find one I like for sale.

Nothing like taking a firm stand! And for the record, I feel exactly the same way!

 

[TercGen]

I called to order trigger play springs and rivets.
They wouldn't even back order them for me.
They gave me Jack First's phone # and told me, "Good luck."

Wow, sorry to hear that, and I'm kind of surprised. That's very different from my experiences with S&W so far. Maybe I've just been lucky with the reps that I've talked to?

My first time, I was only trying to order in stock items, and the rep kept offering to backorder the out of stock items for me. My last order was with a real sweetheart of a lady who was extremely helpful, and very open to talk about the parts situation.

FWIW, and assuming nothing at all about how you place your orders, I have a list of S&W part numbers in front of me when I call in. So far the reps have seemed to appreciate that, and of course I try to be pleasant and to the point.

Sorry again that you weren't able to get these ordered, Jaymo. I have a handful of each myself and a few guns with broken springs; but, if I'm able to secure some more of either one, I'll let you know.

 

[Jaymo]

Thanks.
The guy wasn't rude or anything.He was helpful in that he gave me Jack First's phone number. He did refer to the parts as "obsolete parts", though.
I don't have a parts list, so I don't have part numbers.

The lady at Jack First sure sounds like my kind of woman.
She was very friendly, and is a fan of old Smith & Wesson revolvers.

I tend to agree with Fastbolt on most likely cause of breakage.
Repeated working of the spring ears will cause work hardening.

I honestly don't know how the right side ear of the trigger play spring in my 6906 broke. It was a local LEO trade-in and it just caught my fancy.
It looked right/felt right/was priced right.
I noticed the missing ear when I removed the slide for cleaning.
I haven't shot it yet. I cleaned the few dirty spots that were present. Barrel, breech face, etc.
Not much cleaning was needed. What it did need was lube.
It was dry as a bone. It doesn't look to have been fired that much, and I don't see any excessive wear.

I mostly just had to apply a little bit of Ballistol to the pivoting/sliding friction points. Not much cleaning was needed.
I was putting a drop of oil on the trigger return plunger when I noticed the play spring looked uneven. That's when I noticed the missing ear.

Big question is, how do you remove the old rivet and secure the new rivet. The pictures I've seen show it to look like a small brake rivet.

I thought about taking it to a gunsmith for replacement.
I just don't want to be without it for months on end, while waiting for the smith to source/procure the parts and get a round "tuit".

 

[D Rock]

Jaymo, I have an old order and the Trigger Play Spring is listed as part #234230000 and the Rivet is part #068770000.

I'm pretty sure the Trigger Play Spring is universal. Hope you can find some soon.

Dave

 

[Fastbolt]

...
Big question is, how do you remove the old rivet and secure the new rivet. ...

Do you own a small vise (a table-top edge clamp model will do), a 1/16" straight shank pin punch, a 6" file with a safety edge (no cutting teeth) and a small 2 oz ball peen hammer?

 

[Fastbolt]

The hardest part is knowing how to remove the drawbar from the frame, and then put it back and reassemble the frame.

If you aren't familiar with doing so, properly, leave it up to a local smith familiar with S&W TDA pistols.

It's a 2-minute repair once the drawbar is out of the frame.

I can PM you some info (I think, if I can include images) if you're interested in it from a curiosity perspective.

 

[TTSH]

Bad news for me...

Had my first lousy experience with S&W CS on a 3rd Gen issue. I recently bought a 3913 with pre-recall grips and, just like I had been successful doing with another 3rd Gen, I called S&W CS to obtain a pair of post-recall grips. No problem at all the first time... but with this 3913 it was a disappointment.

It started well when I was told that my gun still qualified for the replacement grips, but then I was told they would be "take-offs" off a used gun that was being stripped for parts. I was assured that the grips were not damaged. But then I received them a few days later, and they were pretty badly beat up... chipped, marred, etc... and worst of all, they had a hairline crack right where the original grips were supposed to have been prone to failure. Not too cool.

I called CS back today and told them that the grips they sent were kind of shabby and, in fact, cracked at the bottom left rear edge. After some unhelpful remarks about 3rd Gens and a long wait, the CS guy told me that no new ones were available anymore and so I was out of luck.

The irony of all this is that Brownells had listed 3913 grips as being in stock last week... and I had back-ordered them prior to that just in case S&W CS couldn't or wouldn't come through for me... but Brownells failed to process my backorder. Now they are out of stock again. I asked Brownells what happened. They couldn't say.

Looks like I place the Brownells backorder again as I refuse to pay a king's ransom to Robertson Trading Post or the folks on eBay. Maybe I'll try a Midway backorder as well.

Has this latest encounter with CS dampened my burning lust for collecting more 3rd Gens? Yeah, I think it has a little.

 

[1775usmarine]

Had my first lousy experience with S&W CS on a 3rd Gen issue. I recently bought a 3913 with pre-recall grips and, just like I had been successful doing with another 3rd Gen, I called S&W CS to obtain a pair of post-recall grips. No problem at all the first time... but with this 3913 it was a disappointment.

It started well when I was told that my gun still qualified for the replacement grips, but then I was told they would be "take-offs" off a used gun that was being stripped for parts. I was assured that the grips were not damaged. But then I received them a few days later, and they were pretty badly beat up... chipped, marred, etc... and worst of all, they had a hairline crack right where the original grips were supposed to have been prone to failure. Not too cool.

I called CS back today and told them that the grips they sent were kind of shabby and, in fact, cracked at the bottom left rear edge. After some unhelpful remarks about 3rd Gens and a long wait, the CS guy told me that no new ones were available anymore and so I was out of luck.

The irony of all this is that Brownells had listed 3913 grips as being in stock last week... and I had back-ordered them prior to that just in case S&W CS couldn't or wouldn't come through for me... but Brownells failed to process my backorder. Now they are out of stock again. I asked Brownells what happened. They couldn't say.

Looks like I place the Brownells backorder again as I refuse to pay a king's ransom to Robertson Trading Post or the folks on eBay. Maybe I'll try a Midway backorder as well.

Has this latest encounter with CS dampened my burning lust for collecting more 3rd Gens? Yeah, I think it has a little.

Do you need the black grips? if so shoot me a Pm wuth your address and i will get them out to you sometime this week. You can have my grips. I prefer the Hogue grips. The original grips came off a 2006 DOC California trade in and I would have to say are near perfect.

 

[TTSH]

Do you need the black grips? if so shoot me a Pm wuth your address and i will get them out to you sometime this week. You can have my grips. I prefer the Hogue grips. The original grips came off a 2006 DOC California trade in and I would have to say are near perfect.

I sincerely appreciate the very kind offer (this forum is great!) but I can live with the original "pre-recall" grips just fine until Brownells or Midway comes through for me. The real issue is resale and that's probably a long way down the road. I will not sell a 3rd Gen (or any other gun) with a known issue or still pending recall... just not ethical in my opinion.

 

[GaryS]

I thought I'd update this thread with good news.
I opened my mail box this morning to find a padded envelope from the mother ship.
Inside were six flat base plates for the 3913/3914 magazines.
I ordered these a few months ago, I forget exactly when.
It appears that while the quantities of 3rd gen parts might be reduced, they are still producing at least some.

 

[BMCM]

That is good news!

I will also advise to keep a close eye on MidwayUSA. There's been a lot of interesting stuff suddenly appearing in stock the past few months. Just yesterday I got an email notice and wound up ordering a couple more 4506 spring loaded decockers along with a few other obsolete things that just appeared in stock. Previously I've stocked up on 45xx mags which have "appeared" in stock a few times in the past several months. I wonder if a lot of stuff isn't being found in obscure parts of the warehouse.

Take advantage of their email notifications and act fast

Cheers
Bill

 

[GaryS]

That's good advice. I had some stuff on back order with them and got the notification that it's going to ship early in February. One thing was 3913 magazine followers. I forget off hand what else. I have to go to the sight and see what else I might want and set up notifications. Just in case those items show up.

That is good news!

I will also advise to keep a close eye on MidwayUSA. There's been a lot of interesting stuff suddenly appearing in stock the past few months. Just yesterday I got an email notice and wound up ordering a couple more 4506 spring loaded decockers along with a few other obsolete things that just appeared in stock. Previously I've stocked up on 45xx mags which have "appeared" in stock a few times in the past several months. I wonder if a lot of stuff isn't being found in obscure parts of the warehouse.

Take advantage of their email notifications and act fast

Cheers
Bill