3rd generation. Steel vs alloy frames.

[hdguy]

I have been told that in selecting a 3rd gen Smith that it's better to go with the all steel on a used gun because the alloy frames tended to wear in the slide area because of the steel slide against the softer alloy. Also that down the road if it was decided to refinish the gun it would be a lot cheaper with the all stainless frame. I'm not an autority but to me it makes sense. I'm not too worried about the refinishing but excessive play caused by a worn frame doesn't sound like an easily corrected problem. Any merit to this. The gun would not be a concealed carry so the weight is not an extreme factor although shaving just a few ounces off wouldn't hurt.

 

[D Rock]

I guess in theory it makes sense to me too.

In fact, I wonder how much wear you can inflict on the frame/slide in a normal lifetime, or several lifetimes considering two or three owners.

I only have about 2K rounds thru my 3913 with no noticeable wear.

My 915 has about 8K thru it, by me.

Judging by outer and inner wear/cleanliness, neither of these pistols saw much action before I got them.

I keep the rails well lubed due to the alloy frame concern and am pretty sure someone else will be able to shoot these pistols long after I'm gone.

Dave

 

[Nico Testosteros]

As far as refinishing goes, yeah a steel frame would be easier to touch up or refinish.

 

[84Carrera]

I suppose it does make sense but at the same time with a bazillion alloy frame semi-auto pistols sold I can't imagine it being a huge problem. I have two alloy frame Smiths and not concerned.

 

[heekma]

...The gun would not be a concealed carry so the weight is not an extreme factor although shaving just a few ounces off wouldn't hurt.

If it's to be a house or range gun, go for the steel. A few extra ounces makes a surprising difference in recoil. Not night and day, but I can notice a difference.

Steel will always hold up longer than aluminum, it's just plain harder and tougher. I have not, however, heard many complaints at all about the aluminum-framed S&Ws. My guess is they stand up just as well or better than most other aluminum-framed guns.

My strong preference is always steel, but that's just me.

Best,

Heekma

 

[Denver Dick]

.45 - Steel

10mm - Steel

.40 - Alloy, unless the shooter is going to try and load it up like a 10mm

9mm - Alloy, steel is overkill for a nine (IMHO). To understand this point, handled a 5903 and 5906. I find the 5903 to have better balance and handling. If you keep it properly lubed and change your recoil spring once and awhile, it should last a lifetime. Of course, if one is going to shoot +P+ frequently, well then, steel might be better.

 

[ispcapt]

When we were issued the 5904 and carrying W-W 115 +P+ quite a few people said the 5904 wouldn't hold up with that load. One of our range officers decided to keep track of the round count and shoot his 5904 until it broke. When he retired he'd documented 80,000 rds of +P+. He'd replaced the barrel at 50,000 because the rifling was wearing down and accuracy suffered and he replaced the springs.
That doesn't meant the next 5904 will go 80,000 or even 10,000 but his off the shelf 5904 did. Figure the cost of 80,000 rds of +P+ and compare it to the price of a new gun. Then figure how long it will take you to shoot 80,000 rds.

 

[SMSgt]

S&W does not reccommend +P+ ammo for its firearms. Your gun--shoot what you like. The consequences are yours alone.

 

[vl5150]

I have both. For a range gun that's going to be used a lot, I recommend steel for durability and heft for recoil absorption. For a S&W 3rd gen CCW gun, alloy hands down.
The original S&W frame design was well suited to a switch to alloy IMO. The ramped barrel is a huge advantage and the lockup area "pads" on the frame are wide and spread the load to a large area.

 

[wproct]

Since I don't carry a handgun, stainless steel is always my prefererred choice. However, I would never worry about an alloy frame on a 3rd generation S&W.

 

[remnard]

From the Ed Brown website:
Our aluminum frame is made from 7075, the strongest aluminum alloy available and the same material used in M-16/AR-15 assault rifle receivers. The tensile strength is more than adequate for the durability requirements. However, no aluminum is as abrasive resistant as steel because it is slightly softer on the surface. This means service life will be somewhat reduced, and the frame is easier to damage.A steel version might be expected to last many thousands of rounds of shooting. An aluminum frame will also last thousands of rounds, but certainly not as many as steel. As always, the life will depend on many factors such as load strength, maintenance, lubrication, etc. A carry gun is generally expected to be shot enough to assure familiarization with the weapon and then is carried most of it's life. Occassional practice is fine, but if you plan on a high volume of shooting, you would be much better served with a steel frame gun. If you mainly plan on carrying the gun and shooting it occasionally, you will find the aluminum is a blessing on your hip. Just keep in mind that the cosmetic finish can be damaged much easier than a steel gun. Shooting with a ring on could cosmetically damage the finish. Getting even mildly aggressive with a mag change will cosmetically damage the inside of the mag well. One just needs to be more careful with aluminum. This is the trade-off for lighter weight.

 

[Martya]

My brother's department retired their 4513TSW earlier this year after 10 years. His duty weapon had just over 10,000 rounds documented, showed some surface wear on the guides, but still shot perfectly. Their quals were 4 sessions per year around 250 rounds each.

 

[XPman]

Steel vs Alloy frames....
How is an easy way to tell which you have...???
I have this pair of 3566s that I would have bet were stainless, now after handling them a bit more, I wonder if they are or are really alloy...
How can I tell right quick...??? I know a magnet won't work on true stainless nor most alloys...

PS-Please Disreguard, I found it I think....
Mod.# 3566---
the 35= .356TSW,
3rd # 6=Non Std. length,
4th # 6=Stainless frame & slide...
Thanks and have a good one...XPman...

 

[dsk]

One should usually be able to tell with the pistol field-stripped. The alloy frame will feel feathery-light in your hand, while the steel one still has a bit of heft to it.

 

[Martya]

Steel vs Alloy frames....
I know a magnet won't work on true stainless nor most alloys...

I believe the SS that S&W uses will have enough iron to attract a magnet. My 4513TSW slide does. The aluminum frames will definitely not attract a magnet.

 

[XPman]

I believe the SS that S&W uses will have enough iron to attract a magnet. My 4513TSW slide does. The aluminum frames will definitely not attract a magnet.

You are right, the slide & frame both had some magnetic attraction...
By that, and the SN I am sure the frame is also SS...
Thanks and have a good one...XPman...

 

[5906fan]

the 5903's that I work over I install a 2lb heavier recoil spring and a buffer.
good insurance IMO. many K's through 03's, 910's and 915's built as these.

 

[D Rock]

5906fan, what kind of buffer do you install?

Dave

 

[OlympicFox]

On the one hand, it should be obvious that a steel framed gun will last longer than an alloy framed gun. On the other hand, is the difference a real issue.

I'm aware of Ed Brown's admonition about alloy framed 1911's. Maybe he has a strong personal preference for steel anyway. I have two 1911's; an all stainless SA Trophy Match and an alloy Dan Wesson. I don't know which will last longer, but I can assure you that the 27 oz DW is a lot more enjoyable to carry but a lot less fun to shoot than the 42 oz SA.

Both the Sig P226's and Beretta 92 that entered into the competition to be the military handguns have alloy frames. I haven't heard anyone complain about short service lives on either. Of course, they are 9mm. I have an alloy-framed P226R and an all stainless P226 Elite, both in 40S&W. Check back in a couple of lifetimes and we'll see which lasted longer and by how much.

 

[scooter123]

FYI, hard anodyzed aluminum has a surface that measures in the 80's on the Rockwell C scale, much harder than steel can be hardened to. It's basically the same Aluminum Oxide that is used for sandpaper and grinding wheels. Sig Sauer anodyzes all of their aluminum frames and I'd be shocked if S&W didn't do the same, because it's a very simple dip process in an acid bath. Don't remember the specific acid but expect a google search would reveal the details. After that dip the aluminum is then typically die to produce the desired color and finish.

The key to getting good service life with an aluminum frame is maintenance and lubrication. That means keep it clean and use enough grease that's formulated for good retention and wetting properties. On a Sig Sauer the recomended practice is to run them quite wet with grease, enough that when the slide is assembled to the frame the excess oozes out and has to be wiped off.

As for stainless steel and magnets, only the 300 series stainless steels are non magnetic and that's only if they haven't been cold worked. Want to freak out a car nut with a new stainless exhaust system? Run a magnet on the bends, every one will hold a magnet, however on a long straight section the magnet won't be attracted. Typically firearms use a 400 series stainless which is fully magnetic. Most common grade used is 416 because it's very similar to 4140 steel and can be heat treated using the same methods as 4140, in fact 416 can be heat treated in the same batch as 4140. Another common firearms stainless is 436, however it's use isn't as widespread.