4” K-38 Target Masterpiece (14-3) question

[snw19_357]

I am not a K38 person so I'm looking for opinions on this revolver from the ones who know.

I came across this and its condition was too good to let it end up a truck gun, and the price was very right. When I got home I read in the SCSW 3rd that they were offered with 6" or 8-3/8" narrow ribbed barrels with Patridge front sights, except for 1000+ Dayton's in 1965, a few AFPG's before that, and the PC run from 1995. Anyone know of any other runs? I know, the only way to know for sure is to get lettered. There's just other ones I am going to letter first.

This one shipped in September, 1971, s/n 1K289xx so it doesn't fall into any of the runs mentioned. It has a wide ribbed barrel with a Baughman front sight, no insert. I don't know if this is considered a heavy barrel on a K-38, it's identical to the one on my 4" 19, except there's no shroud for the ejector rod (and the rollmark). It sure doesn't seem as heavy as the ones on Model 13s.
The coloring on the hammer was the first thing to catch my eye. The turn line is not through the bluing, it's 'bank vault' tight, and the grain on the bottom of the smooth target is perfectly matched. What do you think?

 

[H Richard]

Great looking piece. Glad you saved it from being a Truck Gun. If you don't want it, I'd be interested.

 

[HAWKEYE10]

Don't know the answer to your question. You are going to have to letter this one. It sure looks like a model 15 doesn't it. Don

 

[roaddog28]

Welcome!

Your year according to the serial # is around 1971. I feel you have a model 15 combat masterpiece. This was the target version of the famous model 10. The model 14 was offered with longer barrel lengths and call the model 14 K38 masterpiece. The model 15 has a rich law enforcement history like to model 10. Next to the model 10 you have the finest 38 special revolver ever made. Of course I am prejudice, I have a pre-15 combat masterpiece production 1951. Here is my combat masterpiece
Enjoy your revolver,

 

[John Wyatt]

Mod 14

Mod 15's have a slight taper to the barrel and 14's don't. The OP's revolver does not appear to have a tapered barrel. Is it stamped Mod 14?

 

[roaddog28]

Welcome!

Your year according to the serial # is around 1971. I feel you have a model 15 combat masterpiece. This was the target version of the famous model 10. The model 14 was offered with longer barrel lengths and call the model 14 K38 masterpiece. The model 15 has a rich law enforcement history like to model 10. Next to the model 10 you have the finest 38 special revolver ever made. Of course I am prejudice, I have a pre-15 combat masterpiece production 1951. Here is my combat masterpiece
Enjoy your revolver,

Here is link that might help. Looks like there were a limited number of 14s with four inch barrels. According to the list there were some 14-2s with 4" heavy barrels. If you open the cylinder it should say the model number and production series. But it would paid off to get the letter from S&W.
roaddog
US Revolvers - Smith & Wesson 10-30

 

[Jimmymac46]

You certainly have a different piece there. I have not seen a non-tapered four inch 'K' frame 38 but Smith is somewhat notorious for model variations. I was of the belief that 15's were tapered and only in 4 inch configuration and 14's were six or eight inch straight (bull) barrels. I would spend the time and money to get your gun lettered, just to determine what you have. Please advise if you do.

 

[Combat]

Get a letter,this might be a special order gun or went to someone special.You can't ever tell.Here is my 14-3 6" and my 14-2 Dayton.

 

[Nframe_is_no1]

I second what was said above. Open the cylinder and tell us what dash is there. The barrel looks legit since it is heavy, and not tapered like the usual model 15 barrel. It is probably a special order of some type.

 

[357larry]

Definately a desireable piece. I say it looks like a model 14. The 15s had the frame dimpled on both sides of the top to match up with the narrow rib. I have never seen one of these before. Man that's cool. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I am not an expert by any stretch, but just going by the type of ampersand on the right side, ( and it looks like it on the left side of the barrel when magnified) I would say that the time frame would have been '72 or earlier for a manufacture date, which goes along with some of the posting above. It looks like one of the 14 4" guns, The barrel isn't tapered as it would be on a 15. About 9 or 10 months ago here, there was a really good thread going that showed and explained about this variation of the 14's. I don't know if it would still be available in the archives or not.

 

[Jebus35745]

Wow, I was on vacation last week and when I got back I was gonna do a post on the 14-2 I have to see if anyone had one in the same ser no. range. I did a post some time ago to see if anyone had something close in ser. no. and if they would know where the guns ended up at. Mine is exactly like yours. The bbl is not as heavy as the Dayton I have, sorta like the dia of the 6" bbl they use on standard model 14's. Mine came with hogue goodyears on. I purchased it on a trip to Las Vegas abt 2-3 yrs ago and had it shipped home. I lettered mine, ser. no 1K321XX was sent to Olympic Arms Wholesale Co. in L.A. Calif. on July 1971. The letter states the 4" bbl is original and it should have walnut grips.
This shipment was for 20 units of the same configuration. I'm going back to see the link someone left earlier. I would think that by now someone would know where these guns ended up at. I've even asked on the SWCA forum and no one knows. Larry SWCA 1761

 

[SW CQB 45]

dont mean to change the topic, and its a very nice piece,

but does anyone know if there are 4" heavy barrels like on this gun for a Model 15 project?

has to have this type of front sighted barrel to be somewhat of a bolt on!

thanks in advance

 

[gagunner 2]

I've got a new 6"barrel very similar to it.Heavy,no tapper.short ramp with a patridge sight. Looks like the one in combats picture.
Sitting in my parts box till I find the proper frame.Must be an older one as it has a notch in the threads for the pin.Has a diamond stamp on the flat by the. ejector rod.

 

[snw19_357]

Welcome!

Thanks! Glad to be here
---

Your year according to the serial # is around 1971.

Quote snw19_357, "This one shipped in September, 1971, s/n 1K289xx"
---

Is it stamped Mod 14?

If you open the cylinder it should say the model number and production series.

Open the cylinder and tell us what dash is there.

Sorry, I should have restated it in the body of the post. It was in the title. Inside the frame it is marked 14-3.

 

[snw19_357]

… going by the type of ampersand on the right side, ( and it looks like it on the left side of the barrel when magnified) I would say that the time frame would have been '72 or earlier for a manufacture date...

There are some closer pictures of them posted in this comment.

…there was a really god thread going that showed and explained about this variation of the 14's. I don't know if it would still be available in the archives or not.

Thanks, I am definitely going to seek it out.

I lettered mine, ser. no 1K321XX was sent to Olympic Arms Wholesale Co. in L.A. Calif. on July 1971. The letter states the 4" bbl is original and it should have walnut grips.

Yours is also a -3?
Well, mine being 1K289xx is pretty close but Mr. Jinks stated that this one didn't ship until September of 1971.
I definitely need to get the other ones I plan on lettering done so I can letter this one. Considering what it could be, I may just move it up on the list.

Thanks for all the responses.

 

[Grayfox]

This is interesting. It would seem that 1971 was a big year for 4" Model 14-3s. I also have one. Serial # 1K743XX. It lettered as being shipped to Dave's House of Guns, Dallas, Texas on July 15, 1971. The letter also confirms that it was indeed built with a 4" barrel. There is no mention of it being special ordered.

Originally posted by Jebus35745

I lettered mine, ser. no 1K321XX was sent to Olympic Arms Wholesale Co. in L.A. Calif. on July 1971. The letter states the 4" bbl is original and it should have walnut grips. This shipment was for 20 units of the same configuration.

Ok, here's what I'm thinking. We all know that S&Ws are not built in serial number order. They just grab a frame off the rack and put it together. So that accounts for the fairly wide variation in serial numbers. However, they were all shipped within a fairly narrow time frame.
Jebus35745's gun was part of a special order for Olympic Arms. It makes sense to me the the revolvers that snw19_357 and I have were over runs from that Olympic order that S&W simply offered to other dealers.
Now I wonder if there's any way to verify this theory? Probably not. But it would explain the abundance of 14-3s with 4" barrels in 1971.
Wadda y'all think?

 

[Jebus35745]

SNW, mine is a 14-3.
Gray fox, your idea of an over run is good. If Olympic ordered 20 for someone I would think they would have taken the 20 frames and built them. Its also possible the 20 guns could have been over a time period of a couple months. The letter didn't state they were in sequence. Roy really wouldn't know who ordered the guns thru Olympic either. Maybe Smithnut will chime in. He has a nice group of 4" 14's and may have one close to this. I believe most of his are the Dayton versions. Some one out there knows where these went. It will be interesting to see what your letter will say.
SW CQB, the model 10 and 13 had hvy bbl's and should work. Larry

 

[SW CQB 45]

SW CQB, the model 10 and 13 had hvy bbl's and should work. Larry

I bought one (model 10 hb) but the front sight is too low and will require a taller sight to work with the standard Model 15 rear. this will require some machine work.

I was hoping some of these barrels were floating around for sale to where the barrel would need fitting and just adjust the rear sight to zero.

 

[gboling]

Wow, I was on vacation last week and when I got back I was gonna do a post on the 14-2 I have to see if anyone had one in the same ser no. range. I did a post some time ago to see if anyone had something close in ser. no. and if they would know where the guns ended up at. Mine is exactly like yours. The bbl is not as heavy as the Dayton I have, sorta like the dia of the 6" bbl they use on standard model 14's. Mine came with hogue goodyears on. I purchased it on a trip to Las Vegas abt 2-3 yrs ago and had it shipped home. I lettered mine, ser. no 1K321XX was sent to Olympic Arms Wholesale Co. in L.A. Calif. on July 1971. The letter states the 4" bbl is original and it should have walnut grips.
This shipment was for 20 units of the same configuration. I'm going back to see the link someone left earlier. I would think that by now someone would know where these guns ended up at. I've even asked on the SWCA forum and no one knows. Larry SWCA 1761

I was issued a 4-inch model 14-2 by the LAPD in Dec. 1970. I bought it when I retired and lettered it. I found it was shipped to Olympic Wholesale Co. in LA as a 6 inch on Oct. 24, 1967 with no grips.

About 1968 The LAPD stopped Issuing 6 in. S&W's and Colts to the uniformed officers and 2 in. S&W's and Colts to detectives and standardized on 4 in. S&W revolvers for all new hires. They cut off the barrels of their remaining 6 in. S&W model 14's and thereafter purchased 4 in. model 15's. On my 14-2 the stamping on the barrel is not centered but is nearer the muzzle and has a definite tool mark resembling that of a lathe on the muzzle. My 14-2 was issued with Hogue Goodyear grips but were later replaced with the newer Hogue hard rubber grips with the finger grooves.

From 1968 until the late 1980's the LAPD issued only S&W 4 inch revolvers and mine is known to have gone through Olympic Wholesale Co in LA. In late 1970 and early 1971, the LAPD was adding roughly 100 officers a month and there may have been a shortage of the model 15. It seems possible that your 4 inch 14-2 may have been ordered by the LAPD and they replaced the walnut grips with the rubber Hogue grips for uniformity, but this is purely speculation.

Snw19_357's 14-2 has a bull barrel, not the standard model 14 barrel. The stamping on his barrel is centered from front to back indicating it was not cut off. It seems possible that his revolver was re-barreled.