.40 S&W vs .357 Sig

[fyimo]

I have a Sig P239 and a Sig P226 that I own both barrels for and the 40 S&W barrels are on them right now. That said I like the 357 Sig round also and that's why I have both barrels and shoot both rounds. I like the 40 S&W round because it's easy to reload , uses a small pistol primer, and very little powder so it's great to shoot at the range.

 

[badge]

To the OP: The .357 SIG has garnered a good reputation for stopping power and GREAT accuracy.

The .357 SIG is an effort by SIG to have its name associated with a cartridge (like S&W with the .40). Its original marketing was that it duplicated .357 Magnum revolver ballistics (125 grain at 1,400), however, in the P229 it only does about what that famous revolver load did in a 2 1/2 inch K frame. Performance in the P226 is up to revolver standards, however. That is pretty good, but it does it at high ammo cost, crazy high pressure, lower capacity than 9mm (and there are 9mm rounds that are equivalent ballistics - see below), significant blast, recoil, slower follow-up shots and it seems to chew up guns at an alarming rate.

The ."357" SIG is not .357 at all. It is .355, which is 9mm. The .357 SIG is really a 9mm bullet stuffed essentially into a .40 S&W case which has been necked down to 9mm. Ballistically, the .357 SIG is about the same as the Winchester 9mm load known as RA9TA, the 9mm 127 grain +P+. You need only check the ballistics tables to confirm this. Penetration is not significantly different either. A quick look at the tables in the Winchester LE catalog will confirm this.

Texas DPS is switching from .357 SIG back to 9mm, as are many agencies, and although Texas claims it had a glitch with its first batch of M&P 9 pistols, that plan is apparently still on the table, at least as of now. And, of all the federal agencies, only Secret Service uses the .357 SIG across the board, and I think their needs are unique as they may face assassins or assault teams wearing vests, for which they have special ammo that is simply not available to ordinary US law enforcement or regular private citizens.

There is a reason that in the ICE/Homeland Security tests several years ago that the ONLY pistol approved in .357 SIG was the Heckler and Koch brand. The round is punishing, and even the SIG brand of pistol was not approved. The round is punishing on the gun itself. S&W discontinued its M&P in .357 SIG and its SIGMA (SW357VE) version of the .357 SIG was cataloged for only a year or so, although it was quite reliable and accurate.

That said, if you can live with its disadvantages, the .357 SIG will perform as advertised. For me, however, I do not believe it performs so much better than other rounds that the disadvantages are worth it.

EDIT: It was probably not good for the "clown" to "unload" on you, and if he did so, I understand your point in referring to him as a "clown." That said, it is probably best if all shooters could recognize that there is plenty of room under the tent for shooters of all kinds who like calibers of all kinds, and guns of all kinds.

No Shawn, the Air Marshalls use it as well Federally.

 

[flundertaker]

To the OP: The .357 SIG has garnered a good reputation for stopping power and GREAT accuracy.

The .357 SIG is an effort by SIG to have its name associated with a cartridge (like S&W with the .40). Its original marketing was that it duplicated .357 Magnum revolver ballistics (125 grain at 1,400), however, in the P229 it only does about what that famous revolver load did in a 2 1/2 inch K frame. Performance in the P226 is up to revolver standards, however. That is pretty good, but it does it at high ammo cost, crazy high pressure, lower capacity than 9mm (and there are 9mm rounds that are equivalent ballistics - see below), significant blast, recoil, slower follow-up shots and it seems to chew up guns at an alarming rate.

The ."357" SIG is not .357 at all. It is .355, which is 9mm. The .357 SIG is really a 9mm bullet stuffed essentially into a .40 S&W case which has been necked down to 9mm. Ballistically, the .357 SIG is about the same as the Winchester 9mm load known as RA9TA, the 9mm 127 grain +P+. You need only check the ballistics tables to confirm this. Penetration is not significantly different either. A quick look at the tables in the Winchester LE catalog will confirm this.

Texas DPS is switching from .357 SIG back to 9mm, as are many agencies, and although Texas claims it had a glitch with its first batch of M&P 9 pistols, that plan is apparently still on the table, at least as of now. And, of all the federal agencies, only Secret Service uses the .357 SIG across the board, and I think their needs are unique as they may face assassins or assault teams wearing vests, for which they have special ammo that is simply not available to ordinary US law enforcement or regular private citizens.

There is a reason that in the ICE/Homeland Security tests several years ago that the ONLY pistol approved in .357 SIG was the Heckler and Koch brand. The round is punishing, and even the SIG brand of pistol was not approved. The round is punishing on the gun itself. S&W discontinued its M&P in .357 SIG and its SIGMA (SW357VE) version of the .357 SIG was cataloged for only a year or so, although it was quite reliable and accurate.

That said, if you can live with its disadvantages, the .357 SIG will perform as advertised. For me, however, I do not believe it performs so much better than other rounds that the disadvantages are worth it.

EDIT: It was probably not good for the "clown" to "unload" on you, and if he did so, I understand your point in referring to him as a "clown." That said, it is probably best if all shooters could recognize that there is plenty of room under the tent for shooters of all kinds who like calibers of all kinds, and guns of all kinds.

Please elaborate on this.

 

[badge]

Secret Service uses the 125 Gold Dot presently. No special ammo there. Yes, I know an agent. No, the Air Marshalls use it too as do numerous State Police and State Patrol agencies as do the NJ and PA Wildlife Officers to name acouple. It's a good round but not for all. That's why we have such a plethora of calibers and projectiles so everyone can feel comfortable with what they carry and what they shoot. Also, SG Ammo has Remington UMC .357 Sig 125 Hollow Points for sale for I believe $ 22.95 per box of 50. I don't think that's unreasonable but hey, that's me.

 

[dcxplant]

Please elaborate on this.

He would, but he'd have to kill 'ya.

I've used the 40 as a duty round, as well as 9. I find the 40 no more or less to difficult to handle than the 9's, except for the mild 115gr 9's, which are real sweethearts at the range and anyone over 10 years old can shoot the 115gr 9's. As for the hot modern 9's, I can't tell the difference in hand between them and the 165gr HP LE 40's.

Beware of fanboys of any caliber (or any particular thing). Caliber is to gun people as oil is to motorcycle people…. Good lord don't ever start a conversation about which oil is best on a motorcycle forum…… Shoot what shoots best FOR YOU. Try out as many calibers and loads within caliber as you can. Beg, borrow, rent (try not to buy before you try) pistols of various calibers and rounds within caliber and decide, I know a radical concept, FOR YOURSELF what works.

A missed shot is just noise and flash. A hit is a hit. And to have any chance of stopping a threat you've got to hit the dad-burned thing.

For LEO's, well… ya get what ya get unless you have the option of purchasing your own. In that case, be the fanboy of your caliber and PRACTICE.

 

[shawn mccarver]

No Shawn, the Air Marshalls use it as well Federally.

Oops, forgot about them. You are correct. Thanks!

 

[shawn mccarver]

He would, but he'd have to kill 'ya.

That's funny!

 

[warbuff]

Interesting thread here. I shoot .40s (among many others) but never tried the .357Sig...actually, I never gave the cartridge much thought or consideration. I enjoyed reading the various opinions posted here; Very interesting, thanks.

 

[fdw]

Interesting thread here. I shoot .40s (among many others) but never tried the .357Sig...actually, I never gave the cartridge much thought or consideration. I enjoyed reading the various opinions posted here; Very interesting, thanks.

Yep, very interesting, now I'm considering a 357 barrel for my 40!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Boge]

The .357 SIG is a great round and I love it in my SIG p229. That said, I think it is better at penetrating hard barriers, but against people it works about the same as the 9mm 115 gr. +p+ and the old .357 Mag. 125 gr. JHP.

 

[scooter123]

One thing that always flabbergasts me is the claims of low recoil for the 357 Sig. Folks, you cannot suspend Physics. If you have a load that produces 500 ft.lbs. of Muzzle Energy you WILL have a recoil force produced in proportion to that Muzzle Energy. The aspects involved fall under Conservation of Energy and that pesky Opposite and Equal Reaction thing.

 

[Harkrader]

357Sig vs .40S&W



I am a bit like Colt SAA.
I was first issued a Sig 229/357Sig in 1995. The boss especially liked its performance down range, which at the time was superior to the .40S&W. Over time I expect the longer range performance of the .40S&W has grown closer to the .357Sig, at least partly due to other bullet choices.

One downside of it was that he had to buy and ship ammo by the cartload because it wasn't easy to find.

I do feel there is something different about how the 40 feels compared to the 357Sig when fired in typical guns. That is, with polymer frames. I'm not fond of the Beretta 96 or Glock 23, either. I do still have a S&W 4003 and a Firestar 40 (a compact piece of h-e-a-v-y steel) that are not annoying for me to shoot, so perhaps I just like heavier frames for it.
I took to the 229 immediately, handling it better than the Colt 1911 I had previously been using.
I acquired a 239/.357Sig for myself as well, in '97, and do not mind shooting it.

Something that amuses me, I taught a lady to shoot some years ago. She is tall, slim, elegant, and works in a high-profile profession, always immaculately dressed. I offered her a wide range of guns and she chose the Sig 229/.40S&W as her carry gun, and shot it very well.
Another woman went over my guns, first selecting a Colt Detective Special and then a Colt Government Model. When the danger to her had passed she kept the DS and asked about a "fun gun" other than the Ruger Single Six she won't part with. She liked the Beretta 9000S for the logical reason that "It looks pretty." And it is a Giugiaro design. And its .40S&W. *I* don't like shooting it! But she does!
My favorite carry gun today, and which I shoot very well, is the M&P357Sig. Go figure.

 

[Larry from Bend]

My .40 H&K shoots 135 grain Cor-Bons (my favorite load) @ over 1350 fps according to my Chrony. There is nothing punishing about the recoil or muzzle report, fast follow-up shots are not a problem and it makes a .40 caliber hole.

If a 357 SIG is superior to that; please educate me on the specifics.