44-40 ammunition

In your place I think I would carry a S&W revolver in 45 ACP with the 325 NG as a backup.

That way all your ammo would fit both of your guns.

For several years I carried a 1911 Govt Model with a LW Commander as a No2..

Later due to "official regulations" I carried 2 Glock 17's 100% of the time.

I like having all of my ammo/mags fitting both of my "guns".
 
I forgot to mention, in case you don't have any good speedloaders on hand for the .44-40, you can use the HKS mod 29s. Jiggle them as you turn the knob so it will turn easily and you should have no problem.
 
I loaded 44-40 Win for use in a Colt New Service reolver. I finally sold the gun. I prefer straight walled revolver brass so that I can use a carbide sizing die and not put up with the mess lubing cases.
 
Maybe it is some malady besitting handgunners, but, having reloaded various truly bottlenecked rifle cartridges for over 50 years, I have a real hard time getting unhappy about reloading a few boxes of 44-40 ammo. Lubing cases? What is so terribly negative about that? What did you do before carbide dies?

Niklas
 
Mike Venturino has a book about old west sixguns, and has .44/40 loading tips. He may still advertise it in Rifle and Handloader and Shooting times. It is well worth the price.

I have always been leery of the .44/40 because of the stories that it jammed the guns. I don't know how, but cylinder rotation was impaired. That dates back to black powder days.
I don't know how common it is; saw it in Skeeter Skelton's articles. Venturino hasn't had a problem with it.

On the other hand, the round should work okay on people. Lt. Col. Vincent Fosbery, V.C., who later invented a Webley automatic revolver bearing his name, said that the .44 was the best handgun stopper that he saw in use along the Afghan frontier in the 1870's and 1880's. That carries a lot of weight with me, those Pathan tribesmen being notoriously hard to kill.

I've wondered how an explorer in the 1920's would fare with a Hand Ejector S&W in .44/40. The S&W .44's mentioned by Sasha Siemel may have been these, rather than .44 Specials, as the Winchester M-92 .44 rifle was so popular in Brazil. In fact, Siemel owned one, He didn't always rely on his famous spear with jaguars.

Anyone know what velocity the 200 grain bullet gave from revolvers with factory ammo in the 1920's? I assume that rifle pressure ammo was NOT safe for use in revolvers.

Elmer Keith did NOT like the.44/40, as it gave more reloading problems than did .44 Special, and the chamber thickness of the cylinders was more in .44 Special. With his hot loads, that mattered.

T-Star
 
I have always been leery of the .44/40 because of the stories that it jammed the guns. I don't know how, but cylinder rotation was impaired. That dates back to black powder days.
I don't know how common it is; saw it in Skeeter Skelton's articles. Venturino hasn't had a problem with it.

On the other hand, the round should work okay on people. Lt. Col. Vincent Fosbery, V.C., who later invented a Webley automatic revolver bearing his name, said that the .44 was the best handgun stopper that he saw in use along the Afghan frontier in the 1870's and 1880's. That carries a lot of weight with me, those Pathan tribesmen being notoriously hard to kill.

Anyone know what velocity the 200 grain bullet gave from revolvers with factory ammo in the 1920's? I assume that rifle pressure ammo was NOT safe for use in revolvers.
T-Star

In "The Art of Handgun Shooting" by Capt. Charles Askins Jr., 1941, he lists the velocity of a .44-40 from revolver at 918 fps. with a 200 gr. bullet.

Tapered or bottlenecked cartridges in revolvers can lock up the cylinder by "set back", as they exapand under pressure they are forced backwards and press against the breech face. I have never noticed a problem with low pressured cartridges like the .32-20, which I've shot a lot of, or the .44-40, which I've only shot a relatively few of. But it is a problem in higher pressured cases like the .22 Jet or .22 Hornet. It might have occured using rifle ammo in revolvers but I've never shot any of it any either caliber so I can't say for sure.
 
I have never had a problem with 44-40 cases backing out of revolver cylinders and locking them up, not even with 20.000+ psi loads, as given in Lyman 47th for strong rifles. I will admit two thing about this: 1) this revolver is a Ruger Vaquero with minimum-dimensioned chambers suited to 0,429 bullets and 2) both chambers and loaded ammo were wiped dry. Also of note, even at this "elevated" chamber pressures, I never had those "thin, weak-walled cases" stretch, either in Ruger or Rossi M92. Other than sometimes initially with new cases, I never trim 44-40 brass. Furthermore, I do not worry much about getting absolutely all of resizing lube off standard pressure 44-40 loads, either BP or nitro powders and have never had a single instance of a fired case backing out of chamber and locking cylinder. Actually, in decades of using 44-40s I have yet to see a single case of locked up cylinder from cases backing out.

I do agree with previous posters that truly high pressure, sharply-tapered cases can back out. However, even with such old-style, thin-walled cases as 30-30, often used in single-shot handguns at chamber pressures of well over 30.000 psi, I don't recall discussion or mention of these cases backing out of chambers.

I do vaguely recall stories of early 44-40 ammo, perhaps having weak primer metal and/or weak cases, resulting in lockup of cylinders. Was this really ammo or was it gun? Please do recall that lots of old or cheaply made (Italian mostly) revolvers can have firing-pin holes so badly burred by firing pins as to lock up cylinders or so sloppy as to allow soft primers to flow back between firing pin and frame, also locking cylinders.

FYI, any SAAMI-pressure 44-40 load that gets 1300 fps for 200 grain bullet from a rifle barrel -- and there are plenty with proper powder, eg. 2400, Blue Dot, etc. -- will get about 900-1000 fps from 5,5 to 7,5 inch revolver barrel. For shooting most sub-species of homo sapiens, that is well documented to be generally adequate.

Niklas
 
I shoot quite alot of 44-40 both in a Winchester 73 and a Colt Bisley S/A.
No problems reloading. I can't think of the last time I lost a case to buckling or collapsing as is often stated.
But it is a slower paced reloading,,, single stage, sizing lube, ect.
If you're used to crank 'em out high volume loading, the 44-40 probably isn't for you, though I seem to recall one of the progressive press mfg offering a 44-40 setup,,Dillon maybe??

Mine are all BP or BP sub (American Pioneer or it's earlier namesake CleanShot) loads.
No crimping problems, the bullet can't move back 'cause of the powder in the case, and a decent crimp keeps them from jumping forward in the Colt.
Powder scoop measured. Bullets are always 200gr LFN. They function in the Winchester
Very accurate in the 73 with it's Lyman tang site. The rifle is a rebore (Ken Briesen) from 38-40. Action rebuilt to tighten it to new. Outside, it looks like it sat in a barn all it's life.
Don't know what the MV/ME specs are but I wouldn't feel undergunned at ranges up to 100yrds using it for whitetails (if I still hunted).
It was quite a favorite for a long time before deer & other critters became unstoppable for some reason.

The Colt suffers from a poor bore and for now is just a fun noise maker.
The firing pin/ frame pin hole suffered from the problem mentioned in the post above. The gun would nicely demonstrate the 'lock-up on firing' syndrome every so often.
Not from the cartridge design, but from the mechanical problem. Once the problem was fixed, it has not done it once since.

When 44-40 brass was at a premium (before the Cowboy Shooter days!), I used to make some of it from 44magnum brass.
It is a little shorter than real 44-40. A simple pass through a 44-40 sizer gives you the brass,,but,, then you have to ream the inside of the neck to give it the characteristic thin neck area.

If you simply try to seat the bullet into the sized case w/o reaming the neck (the thicker 44mag brass in the neck) the brass will either collapse as it is now way undersize ID for the bullet,,or if you do get it to enter the case it will re-expand the brass back out to the parent 44mag case outside dimentions and you have accomplished nothing.
 
.44/40 in action RIGHT NOW...

My father is currently packing a .44/40 Ruger Old Vaquero 5 1/2" to defend against unsavory two-legged predators trying to take advantage of the supposedly "evacuated" foothills west of Boulder, CO. My parents house is not in the "burn zone", but is close enough that almost all of the neighbors either left or got caught in-town when the roads were closed. It's good that somebody is minding the farm. FYI- Winchester's current 200 gr JSP generates about 800 fps out of the Ruger.
 
I am satisfied that your Daddy guarding the homefront is well protected with such an obsolete round.....and I pity the fool who doesn't respect you Dad and the Vaquero
 
well I think that this is still a viable round to be used in self defense situations, out of a " barrel I am sure that it will produce enough power to stop a person.
 
Years ago, before a long-term drought reduced desert quail populations, when Gambles and Scaled quail hunting was wonderful on San Carlos Apache Reservation in Southern Arizona, I carried my Ruger Vaquero 44-40 along with shotgun. Happily, I never did see much/any evidence of illegals, as one does at most areas in southern AZ, TX, NM.

Load was a Speer 0,429, 200 grain jacketed hollowpoint over SAAMI max load of Blue Dot, as given in Alliant 2005 loading manual. Have never chronoed this load but, it is much more powerful than any factory load I tried, perhaps 900+ fps from 5,5 inch barrel.

Note added later:: I chronoed the above load today (13 September) and got a bit over 860 fps at ambient temp of about 70F.

Niklas
 
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. . . When we carried the .357 round it only required one to two shots to stop a suspect. . .

No disrespect intended, but nostalgia is a weak tactical reason for a LEO to carry an obsolete round. Not that the .44-40 hasn't been there and done that in law enforcement, but it's readily apparent that ammo selection is extremely limited, and the platforms that utilizes .44-40 are limited as well.

If I were to carry a wheelgun on duy, and I have and still do on occasion, I don't have a problem with the .357 magnum. It's a proven round with a lot of effective bullet and load selections, and there are still a plethora of revolver options chambered in .357. There are even modern lever guns which would companion a .357 revolver.

Besides, lugging around a hog leg all day long gets old pretty quick too.
 
It's a .44 caliber 200 grain bullet, between 800-900 fps, out of a Smith and Wesson N frame revolver.
I don't understand how that is a "weak, tactical reason"????
We carried all steel N frames, all steel 1911's for years all day every day.
 
I lug around a 3 inch model 625 all day, weight is nothing compared to my duty belt I wore for 15 years that weighed 28 pounds. I do not think a 5" barrel N frame will be any worrse than my 3" N frame.

As far as ammunition for the 44-40 I just purchased a but load of 44-40 john wayne JSP ammunition that produces 900 fps and 350footlbs of enerrgy. That is equil to a 44 special and 45 acp.
 
panamajack, if you get a chance to post a couple of pics of your rig and ammo, I would appreciate it.
That is, of course, unless certain doom befalls you the first day you carry it...:)
 
sure ill post some pics here is my rig I will carry on my 1 1/2" double thick black belt
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