Forgive my ignorance but I have a couple of questions regarding this thread generally...
A. I'm not really a "rifle guy" although I do have a couple, one of which is a Marlin 336 in .35 Rem. I'm interested in a pistol caliber lever and have considered a .357 but those seem to be held in VERY high esteem by their manufacturers! VERY expensive! I could get a .45-70 way cheaper but I've always been led to believe that that's almost an elephant load and way too powerful for anything I'd ever be interested in shooting. Someone said here (I think) that a .45-70 would enable you to shoot .45LC also. That true?
B. I think I remember reading long ago that S&W made a .45LC in a DA revolver and that it was available with a short barrel. Can any of you guys confirm this?
Thanks in advance. Ed
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"Someone said here (I think) that a .45-70 would enable you to shoot .45LC also. That true?"""---------------------
Absolutely NOT!!! Not safely.
The 45-70 must have a chamber that is 0.504 inches at the rim and 0.481 inches at the front of the case, 2.105 inches forward' The bullet that fits inside that big case is 0.454 inches diameter.
The 45 Colt is much smaller, only 0.480 where it leaves the rim and only 0.454 at the forward end of the case, only 1.285 inches from the rim.
Practically it will fit inside the chamber and since the bullet is smaller 454 vs 458, it will rattle down the barrel. If the firing pin is such that it will hit the primer. The specs are that the 45 Colt only has a rim 0.60 inches, the bigger 45-70 case has a rim that is 0.70 inches, so the firing pin must be longer to set off the Colt. A small difference like that means you have to test it and with different ammo or different cases and different primers if you reload.
I collect levers and own several in the calibers discussed,, I also have many handguns in 44 mag and 45 Colt, short ones, long ones, 5 shot ones, six shot ones, Ruger only ones and Peacemaker size, AND I have the 454 and 45-70 for comparison.
Short story. We have multiple lever guns in 357, old Marlins, new Remlins, and the Rossis, barrels of 16.5, 18, 18.5 and 20 inches. Opinion. There is no real value in the old JM Marlins, I just get more money if I sell you one.
Second, the smartest pistol caliber lever gun outside of actually grizzly areas is the 357. They all exceed the 44 mag handguns in power, and carry more ammo.
Third, the 454 Casul by Rossi and others is the best in power at a reasonable cost, available in stainless in the 16.5 and 20 inch barrel.
Note, the Rossi 92 in 454 Casul will handle 65,000 PSI, the other designs will not come close, it must be the model 92 with the twin action bars to handle this power which is roughly twice the power of the 44 mag.
The Rossi 92 in 454 with full power loads also has about twice the recoil of the milder 44 mag, because the Rossi weighs under 6 pounds. These are guns made for bear defense, shooting hogs and deer or bear in deep cover, and not much else.
However, the 454 will fire any 45 Colt 45 Cowboy Special, a new shorter case to match 45 acp power, and the 45 Schofield rounds. The 454 lever gun will not fire the 45 rimmed cartridge, because that older round has a much thicker rim, and a smaller case. That said the 454 chamber is like the 357 chamber that accepts the 38 special 38 long Colt and 38 Short Colt, the difference being case length and lessor power levels.
Bottom line, in the big bores the 454 is the most versatile.
44 mag, I love the 44 mag and have handguns with barrels of 2.5, 4 and 5.5. In a lever gun, the 44 mg is wonderful if you do not reload, that lets you shoot the full power, 44 special and 44 Russian, which you can buy off the shelf.
45-70 and others. A comment was made about power levels. The 44 mag is the baseline for handguns, power is set at 36 K psi or so. In the 45 Colt some guns like the bigger Rugers can be loaded to 32Kpsi which allows them to equal or exceed the velocity of equal weight bullets in the 44 mag. When you fire them in rifles the power will rise maybe 40%, making them 100-125 yard deer guns.
The 45-70 is a different animal as is the 454 rifle. Those two can be loaded with 300 grain bullets to equal velocities which is 1,800-2,000fps, which is over 2,600 fpe, plenty for any animal. And that speed makes them a 200 yard deer gun, note the chart below, starting at over 2,600 fpe and still nearly 1,000 fpe at 200 yards.
There 454 Casul data is identical, making those two realistic 200 yard guns.
Now sight in your 44 mag lever gun again, 2 inches high at 100 yards and here is the best you can hope for. The 150 yard shot is fine, except you only have 700 fpe whereas your 45-70 or 454 at that range would have 1,259 fpe, so your 44 mag has about half the power at 150 yards as the 45-70 or 454.
Simple physics, just decide how much power you really need. I love the 45-70, the 454 and firing the hotter Ruger only loads in the 454, but knowing they are half power, like the 44 mag, but also half the recoil..
Bottom line.....I advise everyone to choose the 337 lever gun first unless the actually live in Alaska or in real bear county. The power is above 44 mag handgun loads, cheap and ammo is everywhere.
And brand does not matter. If you want the 454 you must get the Rossi model 92. If you settle for lesser power, any brand will do. The Henrys weigh a little more but are slick. The new Smith and Wessens look great. Several new offshore companies are now selling 357 lever guns and reviews are looking good.
Hope this helps. If you really need the power, go with the 45-70 or the Rossi 454, If not, buy the 44 mg if you do not reload. If you reload, but the 45 Colt.
Or if you just want a powerful lever, buy the 357. More power than you will ever need, I have had 4 of them, just saying.
