44 Magnum Reloading Question

[cladd1]

I have a question about using my 44 mag pistol reloads in my new CVA Scout rifle in 44 mag. I have a SW PC 44 mag which I reload for, mainly lighter target loads. These reloads consist of Berry's plated 240 grain flat point bullets with Unique powder. I went to sight in my new Scout rifle with these reloads and could not get them on paper at 50 yards. I then moved to 25 yards and grouping looked like a shotgun load. I thought maybe the new Sightron scope I purchased for this rifle was defective so I tried a Leupold scope I had, no improvement. I was then thinking maybe the Scout had a bad barrel. I didn't think there was an issue with my reloads since they work fine in my revolver however I tried some old PMC factory 44 mag ammo I had. Problem solved! I was able to sight the rifle in fine. My question is were my reloads not compatible with the Scout's 1x20 twist barrel?

Thanks

 

[smithra_66]

I have a question about using my 44 mag pistol reloads in my new CVA Scout rifle in 44 mag. I have a SW PC 44 mag which I reload for, mainly lighter target loads. These reloads consist of Berry's plated 240 grain flat point bullets with Unique powder. I went to sight in my new Scout rifle with these reloads and could not get them on paper at 50 yards. I then moved to 25 yards and grouping looked like a shotgun load. I thought maybe the new Sightron scope I purchased for this rifle was defective so I tried a Leupold scope I had, no improvement. I was then thinking maybe the Scout had a bad barrel. I didn't think there was an issue with my reloads since they work fine in my revolver however I tried some old PMC factory 44 mag ammo I had. Problem solved! I was able to sight the rifle in fine. My question is were my reloads not compatible with the Scout's 1x20 twist barrel?

Thanks

Plated bullets for me at least are usually the worst in terms of accuracy. They aren't as hard as jacketed bullets to really grip the rifling, and they aren't as soft as lead bullets to really grip the rifling. They are "in-between" which is less than desirable for accuracy.

Does your barrel have that micro groove rifling or something? With any type of bullet of normal 44 mag weight, you should get pretty good groups at only 25 yards with a rifle.

 

[IAM Rand]

Second what was said above. I have always heard that plated bullet should not be used for certain loads. Your pistol barrel is shorter and there for won't produce the same velocity as the rifle. I wouldn't imagine that it would be more than 200-300 fps but, that might make the difference with placed bullets.

Never been a big fan of plated. use straight lead or go with quality bonded bullets unless you are just plinking.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I have also been less than trilled with plated bullets in long guns, though my total experience in that arena has been with a Ruger PCC 9mm. It likes hardball bullets just fine but Berry's plated not so much, where the hand guns like the Berry's just fine.

 

[Drm50]

To me you just proved it’s the bullets. 44mg is only revolver cartridge I load with jackets and magnum charge. This is for use in Ruger SBH, when first starting loaded 240 cast / gas check. Switched to jacket hp many years ago. I only use jackets in the Ruger & Marlin carbines although they do ok with cast if you want to gas check. I have found most of gobbling over accuracy in the various carbines could be resolved by sizing for your bore. Marlin Micro Groove will shoot lead fine at .430”- .432” depending on individual rifle and bullet alloy.

 

[rockquarry]

I've used plated bullets once; that was enough for me. There are probably exceptions and some of these may actually be accurate, but if you have any serious interest in accuracy, spend a little more and get real jacketed bullets or use cast bullets that fit and are of the proper alloy for your load.

 

[Gamecock]

But wait! Light loads in a rifle sounds like a really bad idea. The bullets may just be barely making it out the barrel. One may not make it some day and . . . boom.

Unique is a fast burning powder. Great for pistols and shotguns. Your light load may be all burnt up before the bullet clears the barrel, and the bullet is actually decelerating in the barrel.

If you want to shoot those bullets in a rifle, get that powder charge up. And I say that with some urgency.

 

[TheTinMan]

I’ve had reasonably good success with plated bullets in 9mm Luger and 45 ACP handguns. The manufacturer will tell you what the maximum velocity is for any given plated bullet. Exceed that velocity and the bullets may not function as intended.

You also need to remember that plated bullets often have their own load data. Again the bullet manufacturer should tell you. I know some guys say “just use lead bullet data” and others say “use jacketed bullet data.”

 

[4barrel]

Freedom Arms and SRH and S&W have 1-in 20 twist with 44 mag .--Rifle-Most 44 mag have 1 in 38''. I was having a little trouble with my SRH and J.M. Marlin with cast bullets. I took a Lee mold that dropped at .429 and reamed the back to .436 -then rezised to .432 and pan lubed and problem solved. Easy to do. These guns shoot a jacketed bullet fine. As for lighter bullets a 180 XTP Hornady does good. I found 1000 for $110 shipped three elections ago. 10 grains of Unique work perfect with a 240 grain 44 mag bullet. How much Unique powder were you using? It May help to pan lube those plated bullets.

 

[mikld]

Never cared for plated bullets. First ones I tried were for 38 Special, 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum. No cannalure and had bullets jump. My cast bullets gave me better accuracy and no leading so plated had no advantage. the jacketed bullets I used performed very well and were just as clean handling as plated. I found no advantage or use for plated bullets over what I already used.

Another thought; SAMMI specs for 44 Magnum rifle groove diameters is .431" as opposed to .429" for handgun barrels. This may add to accuracy problems. My 44 Mag. Puma was not real accurate with my .430" cast bullets until I slugged the barrel and sized my bullets to .433". I'd suggest slugging the barrel for groove diameter, also feeling for constrictions or loose spots as a start...

IIRC, my Puma and Contender have 1-38 twist barrels so I have no experience with faster twist barrels. Definitely a potential problem...

 

[Drm50]

I had always loaded 44mag for my SBH with max load of 2400 & JHP. I always sighted the carbines in on this load. A few years ago I bought H-110 because it was supposed to be optimal powder for carbine loads. Never got to it before I went out of 44 carbine business. Light Target loads are all I shoot in S&W 29s, I run mostly Unique & 630 at 1000fps.

 

[Dvus]

But wait! Light loads in a rifle sounds like a really bad idea. The bullets may just be barely making it out the barrel. One may not make it some day and . . . boom.

Unique is a fast burning powder. Great for pistols and shotguns. Your light load may be all burnt up before the bullet clears the barrel, and the bullet is actually decelerating in the barrel.

If you want to shoot those bullets in a rifle, get that powder charge up. And I say that with some urgency.

I second this, especially the deceleration in a rifle barrel with light unique loads. When a bullet starts deceleration in the barrel, it can start to "shudder" which destroys any hope of anything less than a shotgun pattern. I ran into this same issue years ago. I loaded my.44 mag rifle loads with H110 which gave top velocity and great accuracy in my Win. 94.

 

[WR Moore]

I think velocity has more to do with your problem than the type of bullet you're using. Deep in the last century someone gave a couple boxes of the then new Winchester .45 target ammo loaded with a 200 gr SWC bullet at a claimed 700 f/s. I was shooting handloads with a similar bullet at some unknown, but higher velocity. In comparison, the factory ammo stank accuracy wise. Puzzled, I pulled some bullets, dropped in my powder charge and reseated the bullets. Accuracy greatly improved.

After some thought, I figured out that the problem wasn't the ammo, it was me. The added dwell time in the barrel let my lack of technique wobble the bullets off my theoretical point of aim.

No idea how "light" your target loads are, but you might want to jack up the powder charge somewhat. Berry's website claims their 240 gr bullets are good up to 1850 f/s. I wouldn't want to go that far, but you might try some loads using rifle data in the 1100-1200 f/s range.

 

[cladd1]

As a point of clarification, I was only using these plated reloads to sight in my Scout. I'll be using only factory hunting loads for my deer hunting. I was curious as to why they shot so terribly. Sounds a combination of reasons namely twist of barrel and lack of speed. Thanks for all the replies!!

 

[342ti]

Plated bullets should be loaded the same as lead bullets, the mfgrs tell you that. I've NEVER had any luck with Unique, terrible powder in my opinion. Buy some Bullseye and keep your charges light, you'll get the groups you're looking for.

 

[HankB]

Plated bullets aren't new, Winchester had their "Lubaloy" plated lead bullets a long time ago. In principle they should work fine, so I doubt it's because the bullets were plated. You mentioned you had a "light" load of Unique . . . despite its popularity I never had much luck with Unique, but I'd suggest upping the load closer to the maximum listed in the manuals. It's possible the bore on the rifle is a little oversize compared to the bullets, and the light load gave you powder gas blowby rather than the plated bullet slugging up to fit the rifling. Try slugging the barrel and measuring the groove diameter, comparing it to the bullet diameter.

It could be a question of stabilization - since you were getting big patterns rather than groups even at 25 yards, were all the holes in the paper nice and round, or did you see evidence the bullets were tipping?

 

[WR Moore]

Having used the Lubaloy bullets in .357 Magnum, they weren't plated as we know the term today. The copper coat appeared to be about the same thickness as the copper wash on their high speed .22 lr ammo. I'd fire 6 rounds of factory ammo and the rifling disappeared under a coat of lead. Once I used up that one box, I never bought the things again.

IIRC, the 1-38 twist in rifle barrels for .44 wasn't thought all that highly of. There was also a reason Marline switched from micro-groove to Ballard rifling in .44 Mag. Currently, Douglas barrels only produces rifle barrels/blanks in 1-14, 1-16 and 1-20 twists. Dunno if they'll still do special orders.

 

[Rodan]

I shot a lot Berry's plated bullets in my .45 ACPs without any issues, but for whatever reason, Berry's plated bullets never had even acceptable results in my .44 Mags. Terrible accuracy, inconsistent pressures, etc...

The local gun shops have switched to different bullet makers now, so Berry's aren't sold locally, but I wouldn't buy them for a .44 mag even if they were.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

But in my experience some plated (Xtreme's .429 240gr RNFPs) shoot just great out of a 44 Special...

Cheers!

 

[Miracle Man]

I've been shooting Berry's plated bullets in 9mm with no issues,FWIW.

And I'm with the guys thinking it may be just the velocity is to low.