442 and Wadcutters

[mgriffin]

My wife has a Sig P238 (carries IWB) and is quite proficient with it, never leaves home without it. She is a little thing,100 lb. and 62 years old. She has tried out my 442 a couple of times but found the recoil to much with standard .38 spl. factory JHP. So, I was thinking about some wad cutters for her to try out and looking for suggestions....I know I have read on the forum that quite a few use the .38 Spl wad cutters for carry and was also looking for suggestions. If she finds she can shoot the wad cutters comfortably, she may try jacket pocket carry in the cooler months. BTW, she has laser grips on her P238 and I have them on my 442.
She is just intrigued by being able to hold her gun in her hand while walking in parking lots and such with out having to draw. Thanks!

 

[Old cop]

Wadcutters might mitigate recoil, but not much. You might be better off w/standard pressure 110 grain Hornandy. I have the +P in my 340PD and the recoil is pretty mild, but that's very subjective b/c I'm 6'2" & 200 lbs.

 

[Wprovence]

Wadcutters are great. Buffalo Bore makes some good ones and you can find target WC around too.


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[Rpg]

You want target wadcutters, Federal loads them as does Fiochi and I'm sure others such as Remington.

You don't want Buffalo Bore or any other hopped up loads from boutique brands.

The good old target 148 gr wadcutter is very pleasant to shoot and excellent self defense ammo, just not as sexy or expensive as the gee whiz stuff.

 

[ContinentalOp]

While not my first choice, the regular 148gr target wadcutters are a good low-recoil option. I agree with Rpg. If your wife has difficulty wth standard JHP the Buffalo Bore wadcutters will probably be problematic, too. I consider BB's standard pressure ammo to be the same as +P in terms of recoil.

If the target wadcutters are still too strong, you can always try some lightweight JHP, like 110gr Hornady Critical Defense. I'm not a fan of lightweight bullets, but if it's what enables your wife to shoot it well then it's a worthwhile compromise.

 

[326MOD10]

Hornady also makes a 158 grain hollow point that is standard pressure under their Custom line.

I like it when looking for a non +P option.

 

[dr. K]

Wadcutters might mitigate recoil, but not much. You might be better off w/standard pressure 110 grain Hornandy. I have the +P in my 340PD and the recoil is pretty mild, but that's very subjective b/c I'm 6'2" & 200 lbs.

^ this... Hornady makes 110 grain Critical Defense in both standard pressure and +p. If she can manage that Sig she'd probably be pretty pleased with the 110 grain Critical Defense rounds. Hornady also makes a "lite" round that's 90 grains... probably greatly reduced recoil, but probably also greatly reduced performance too, though that's only a guess.

Happy shooting to you and the Mrs.

 

[one eye joe]

You want target wadcutters, Federal loads them as does Fiochi and I'm sure others such as Remington.

You don't want Buffalo Bore or any other hopped up loads from boutique brands.

The good old target 148 gr wadcutter is very pleasant to shoot and excellent self defense ammo, just not as sexy or expensive as the gee whiz stuff.

I AGREE WITH Rpg. I WOULD ALSO AVOID THE "BOUTIQUE BRANDS". JIM CIRILLO, FAMED LAWMAN OF THE NYPD "STAKE OUT SQUAD", WHO WAS FORCED TO KILL A DOZEN OR SO OF ARMED CRIMINALS, IN SHOOTOUTS, FAVORED THE .38SPL WADCUTTER, AS HIS DUTY LOAD. NO DOUBT IT WAS THE COMMON 148GR TARGET AMMO, IN USE BY THE NYPD, FOR TRAINING AND QUALIFICATION......

I WOULD GO WITH THE FEDERAL BRAND. THEIR SOFT PRIMERS WORK TO ENSURE RELIABLE IGNITION

 

[Nevada Ed]

A factory Remington 148gr HBwc out of my 21 oz. J frame snub nose
does 630fps with 130 ME and has a Recoil of only 2.62 pounds.

A 148 at 757fps at 188 ME has a recoil factor of 3.83.
A 125 JHP "Nyclad" at 836fps and 183 ME has a recoil of 3.68.
A 158 LHP factory at 718fps with 188 ME puts out 4.01 pounds.
This starts to get into the "Ouch area" for some shooters.

The 135gr Gold Dot at 862fps and 222 ME is a hand full at R 4.78 in a light weight 38 Special.

The 148gr WC will stop an attacker with 1-4 shots...... maybe?
A lot depends on placement , size and clothing worn.

 

[OKFC05]

I use wadcutter handloads for practice, and finish with no more than 5 HP in my 442. If SHTF, nobody will notice recoil. Practicing with a 442 and hot loads is torture and grows flinches THIS BIG!

 

[Practical]

I plan on trying the HST Micro line of 38 special. These LOOK like hollowpoint wadcutters.

I don't know if the recoil will be low since it is +p.

 

[cadmike]

This all sounds like a good excuse for you to get some of those recommended 148 gr target WCs... AND those 110 gr JHPs...and take your wife to the range for some quality trigger time.

You could let her shoot your 442 and she could let you shoot her p238. Sounds like a great date to me.

 

[Bill In Texas]

Howdy mgriffin,

While I haven't purchased any of the various wadcutters that have been mentioned, I have reloaded a few. I can testify to the fact that it is a very mild load if this helps any.

 

[mgriffin]

I ordered 2 boxes of Winchester Super Match 148gr wad cutters this evening. Lucky Gunner say they are about 709 FPS. I think what I have been using is closer to 870 - 890 FPS. We will give them a try on our next shooting date using the Airweight. If they are still to hot for her it might give me an excuse to buy an older 640 .38 Spl. I have a 640-1 but am hoping to keep that one for me.....lol I will post an update when she tries them out. Thanks!!

 

[jtcarm]

You want target wadcutters, Federal loads them as does Fiochi and I'm sure others such as Remington.



You don't want Buffalo Bore or any other hopped up loads from boutique brands.



The good old target 148 gr wadcutter is very pleasant to shoot and excellent self defense ammo, just not as sexy or expensive as the gee whiz stuff.

Back when big city PDs required the 158 LRN, many still issued wad cutters at the ranges. Some cops would carry target WCs and, if asked, would say they just came from the range.

 

[adwjc]

Back when big city PDs required the 158 LRN, many still issued wad cutters at the ranges. Some cops would carry target WCs and, if asked, would say they just came from the range.

We carried them for dispatching injured animals.

 

[ADP3]

You may also want to replace the boot style grips that come standard on the 442. A larger rubber grip (Hogue, Pachmayr [not the Compacts], the big Crimson Trace version) will reduce felt recoil over the boot grips.

Best Regards,
ADP3

 

[Vlad883]

The HST micro is what I carry in my 442. I also put some Altamont grips on mine

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[Joe4d]

A factory Remington 148gr HBwc out of my 21 oz. J frame snub nose
does 630fps with 130 ME and has a Recoil of only 2.62 pounds.

A 148 at 757fps at 188 ME has a recoil factor of 3.83.
A 125 JHP "Nyclad" at 836fps and 183 ME has a recoil of 3.68.
A 158 LHP factory at 718fps with 188 ME puts out 4.01 pounds.
This starts to get into the "Ouch area" for some shooters.

The 135gr Gold Dot at 862fps and 222 ME is a hand full at R 4.78 in a light weight 38 Special.

The 148gr WC will stop an attacker with 1-4 shots...... maybe?
A lot depends on placement , size and clothing worn.

Those recoil calculators are pretty meaningless as they dont take into account powder burn rates.
Just go shoot a Ruger LC9S 3.1" 9mm with 124 gr ammo and a 2.5" 357 revolver of the same weight loaded with same type of 125 gr 357 ammo.
Same bullet mass, same velocity (in fact 9mm is better usually)
BIG BIG difference in recoil, due to the heavier charge of slower powder.. And it isnt just the weight,,changing powder weight on those calculators only make tiny changes to the recoil energy. Guess it is some kinda rocket effect from the powder , dunno but pretty easy to experience.
Why I dont think to highly of snub nose revolvers, when a pocket 9mm generates more power, carries more rounds, and produces far less recoil with factory ammo.
To the Op,, if she likes the 380 maybe look at a polymer DAO 380 for pocket carry.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

You want target wadcutters, Federal loads them as does Fiochi and I'm sure others such as Remington.

The good old target 148 gr wadcutter is very pleasant to shoot and excellent self defense ammo, just not as sexy or expensive as the gee whiz stuff.

Rpg offers good advice here. Ok, here's my true 148 gr. wadcutter story... when I was a teenager, I was a bellboy (yeah, this was a loooong time ago) at a local chain motel. One of our regular customers was a nice gentleman that everyone on the hotel staff knew because of his frequent visits. One day, he asked me if I would do him a small favor and buy him some flesh and brown colored enamel model paint (at the time, you could go to any model shop in town and get the tiny bottles of paint for maybe $0.50/each). I brought him the requested paint bottles and a couple of paint brushes the next day and he asked me to follow him to his room so he could repay me.

Once we got to his room, he invited me inside and got his wallet out of a desk drawer to pay me. That's when I glanced into the open drawer and saw a well worn S&W Model 60 - and his credentials. Turns out he was an FBI agent. When he saw me looking at his revolver and credentials, he explained that he specialized in what is now known as hostage negotiation, only his was of a more dynamic nature in that he actually went into the bank to talk the bad guy(s) out. He took the Model 60 out of the drawer, opened the cylinder and handed it to me to look at. I was surprised to find he had it loaded with, you guessed it - 148 gr. wadcutters.

He explained that if he had to shoot someone it would probably be at close distance, and that he might require multiple shots. Thus, he wanted something that wouldn't over penetrate, and had mild recoil. Oh, and as for the model paints - he blended the paints to closely approximate his own skin tone and slathered the paint all over the Model 60. He explained that once painted, he could "palm" the piece and it would be effectively camouflaged. A lot to absorb by a 16 yr. old kid - that guy blew my mind!

As an ER nurse, I've seen what happens when someone is hit in the belly by a 148 gr. wadcutter at close range and it is not pretty. They make an effective antipersonnel round in my opinion.

Mgriffin - you mentioned you have laser grips on your Model 442, but you didn't mention what model/make they are. I have arthritis in both of my hands and wrists, so recoil management is important to me. I use Crimson Trace LG-405 laser grips on all of my Air Weight J-frames as they are built with a hollow chamber along the backstrap. This chamber compresses under recoil and helps mitigate recoil quite a bit.

Good luck,

Dave