45-70 or 30-30

[Dillyp]

No question. 30-30 all the way. I would not hesitate to take on ANY North American game with the old 30WCF, even the big brownies. Know its range, and become a good shot with it. Cheap ammo, and light recoil make it a no brainer. I prefer a Winchester, but I guess a Marlin would do...

 

[windypoint]

I really like my early Marlin 45-70 Guide gun. It is not a fun target shooter, but the small size makes it a terrific brush gun for Alaska. I don't think I would take a game shot beyond 200 yards as the round drops like a rock after 150. I don't know what the ballistics are on the 30-30.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Worth considering. From what Ive read, a .357 from a rifle length barrel can approach 30-30 power levels and offers the utility you seek with factory ammo prices that allow you to affordably plink. Something like a 20" Rossi 92 seems to fit the bill.

Not a bad idea...... as you want to get a .357 revolver.

I have a Winchester Trapper ( IIRC 9rds) and a Ruger 77/357 (5 round rotary magazines....... both are great utility rifles here in the mountains of Pa.

The Winchester is too nice to beat around ..... so the stainless Ruger gets most of the time in "Penn's woods"

 

[old&slow]

I own and shoot my Winchester 94 in 30-30.
Nothing better, and I have an arsenal of bolt actions.
I do not shoot really long distance in the mountans anymore, but shooting the fields and assorted brush and timber in East Texas.
NOTHING is better nor easier to carry and take aim and shoot than my Model 94 Winchester, or my scoped out Marlin lever.
Both are in 30-30.
You would be an ignoramus if you passed by a lever action 30-30.
Nuff said,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Wow ! Guess that settles it.. Probably should sell my .308, 30-06, .270 , 45-70, 6.5 Creedmoor, 300 Savage, .357, & .223's ... I don't want to be a ignoramus.
Sorry, No offense really meant ,,, Just poking fun..

If you just had one rifle ,, a 30-30 would / could / might be a good choice.. Nothing wrong with that.. But then again "that's why they make so many different firearms,, so we can have more toys,,"

 

[old tanker]

...but I'm not sure what they were thinking when they designed a .30 caliber bottleneck cartridge for a lever gun...

The old boys up in New Haven were making rifles that shot a moderately popular black powder number, the .38-55. Necked down to .30 caliber and loaded with smokeless it became .30 W.C.F aka .30-30. and readily fit a rifle they were already building.

 

[Iggy]

Had an old sheep herder working for us that was seeing some coyotes around the herd at night. He had a .22 but wanted something more powerful.
I was 14 and had a 30-30 and wanted a bigger rifle, so I sold him the 30-30.

Being use to the 22 he didn't pull it into his shoulder like he should.
He fired a round and said "Ay Che Waw Waw!! That trenta-trenta she shoots like a bomb!"

 

[BearBio]

1. As a guide, I saw several wanna-be cowboys use the 357 on pigs==didn't work too well over 50 yards.
2. Someone said the 357 is good to 150 yards for a good shot. So is a 22 rimfire.
3. 30-30 for grizzly ???? Put me in your will.

I have a 30-30 45 Colt, have had 45-70, 44 mag, 357 Cowboy, 300 Savage, 45-90, 32 spl and 38-55. For deer and small pig and black bear, the 30-30 will suffice quite well.

If I hunt a lever, and want to anchor something FAST, I will use my 1936 Model 71 in 348 Win.

 

[2ndAmendmentNut]

1. As a guide, I saw several wanna-be cowboys use the 357 on pigs==didn't work too well over 50 yards.

Mind sharing a few more details on this? What happened with shots over 50 yards? Poorly placed shots or poor bullet performance?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Buford57]

As an afterthought, the question of whether to get a .30-30 or a .45-70 is an odd one. The two cartridges and their terminal ballistics are as different as night and day. You really need both. BUT, that said, my issue with the .30-30 is that it was/and is a very poor cartridge to have incorporated into a lever action. It may have been around 125 years, but it has a couple major flaws. It is a long cartridge - less capacity in a lever gun. It is a small diameter and fairly fast bullet - not a good choice for a tubular magazine where only flat nose bullets can be used. It is more of a flat-shooting, longer range cartridge - again, a mystery why they'd put it into a lever action with a short barrel. IDK the history of it, but I'm not sure what they were thinking when they designed a .30 caliber bottleneck cartridge for a lever gun. A 1903 Springfield with stripper clips would be superior...and history shows that the Army did exactly that.

They were trying to harness smokeless powder for the American Sportsman for whom, at the time, "deer rifle" meant lever action. What the .30-30 was replacing was the .44-40 and .38-40 (more power) or the .45-70 (less weight and recoil). The US Army had adopted the "modern" .30-40 (.30 ARMY) in the "modern" Krag Jorgensen bolt action only two years before, with a round nose 220 grain slug even though its magazine would have made spitzers practical - if they had existed. One year later Winchester would adapt the .30-40 to a lever action with a box magazine and still use round or flat nosed bullets. The 1894 Winchester was introduced in two old Marlin/Ballard cartridges (.32-40 and .38-55) while the engineers figured out the correct steel alloy to contain the high velocity copper jacketed bullets of the .30-30 (.30 WCF). Ballistics was a rapidly developing science. Witness the fact that the Army's original cartridge for the Springfield (.30-03 with the old 220 grain Krag round nose) lasted all of 3 years before being replaced with a modified item called the .30-06 with a lighter, faster, pointier projectile.

This was also a time when "deer hunting" meant walking and carrying your rifle all day, or packing it in a scabbard on horseback. It decidedly did not involve sitting in an elevated outhouse and going for a 600 yard shot. Try hefting a full military Krag or 1903 and then a 94 Winchester and ask which you'd rather tote all day.

But back to the OP: I love my .45-70, but unless you reload you will get more use out of the .30-30.

 

[bigwheelzip]

1. As a guide, I saw several wanna-be cowboys use the 357 on pigs==didn't work too well over 50 yards.

I don't doubt you, and since the OP is not a reloader, this comment is not pertinent, but there are .357 rifle loadings that are very effective at 100 yards.

There is a Texan who runs a Rossi forum and has documented numerous .357 rifle hog kills on his ranch using rounds he designed. This is his load:

 

[Skeetr57]

I am going to offer my opinion here, for what its worth. I own most of the calibers mentioned here, and have killed deer with most of them, but never with a .30-30. Of the two calibers listed by the OP, I would go with the .30-30 in a Marlin 336. The .30-30 is a more versatile round, is easily found, and the Marlin is easy to mount a scope on, and a scope of no more than 4 power makes things a lot easier to hit. The 336 can also be taken down for cleaning from the rear of the barrel with the removal of only one screw. The only drawback to the 336 is that Marlin has about a pound of excess wood in the stock and forend, but that can be taken care of by anyone with a few woodworking skills. one of my favorite deer rifles for the woods is a Marlin 336 that I rebarreled to .38-55 and trimmed down to the stock profile of the 1893 carbine. It gives up a little range to the .30-30, but has better knockdown power. Not only have I killed deer with it, but my grandson took his fist buck with it last year.




i am going to offer my

 

[2152hq]

Caliber discussion aside, I wouldn't buy either of the new mfg Marlin rifles mentioned.
Maybe others have seen better products than I, but the ones I've had a look at from the Remlin Works were sad.

Buy an older North Haven made or better still a New Haven mfg (at least for the 30-30) IMO.

That said, of the two I'd pick a decent condition used 30-30. Could be a Marlin,,Winchester,,maybe a Savage 99.
The latter in 300Sav ain't bad and there's lot's of them around.
Even a couple bolt rifles out there were made in 30-30.

Lot's of other choices incl inexpensive used commercial bolt sporters in common calibers that'll all do the job.

A Lever Action in a pistol cartridge is a fun gun too. I have a couple orig 73's and a 92 all in 44-40.
The 73 rifles gets fed a light diet. But the 92 can take a heavier load and I wouldn't hesitate to use the latter on deer if I still hunted.

So much to choose from..

How 'bout a Winchester Model 1910 cal .401WSL.
You'll have your cool factor but you'll have to get into reloading most likely

 

[500SNW]

Caliber discussion aside, I wouldn't buy either of the new mfg Marlin rifles mentioned. Maybe others have seen better products than I, but the ones I've had a look at from the Remlin Works were sad. Buy an older North Haven made or better still a New Haven mfg (at least for the 30-30) IMO. all do the job.

While I respect your opinion, I'd strongly suggest that the OP personally examine NEW Marlins and make up their own mind. I cringe at the thought of all the people out there who never even consider a Marlin because of all the propaganda they've read online. Thankfully, just like this forum...the Marlin Owners forum also has its own prohibition on "crying, bashing and whining" about Remlins.

 

[old&slow]

Caliber discussion aside, I wouldn't buy either of the new mfg Marlin rifles mentioned.
Maybe others have seen better products than I, but the ones I've had a look at from the Remlin Works were sad.

I agree with what both 2152hq & 500SNW said.

I haven't looked at a Rem-Marlin for a couple years now. But, I was working at the LGS when we started getting the new Rem-Marlin's in. They were pretty rough and crappy. So, do a good job of checking them out if you are considering a new one.

My 1895 Marlin 45-70 is an older one and is quite smooth and well made. I'm quite happy with it ,, and wouldn't part with it.. I also wouldn't be afraid to purchase an older Marlin in about any caliber I was interested in..

 

[Paper Clip]

I went and held the 1895 gbl yesterday. Action is smooth and fit and finish seemed to be fine on the specimen that I saw. Very handy rifle.

 

[BearBio]

Referring to poor performance in the 357 in a rifle on hogs: A variety of factors. Out of maybe a dozen failures, some were pigs were too big and/or had a thick gristle plate, poorly placed shots (a quick shooting gun does not necessarily mean an accurate quick shooting shot), simply poor performance (i.e. 125 to 140 gr). For what it is worth, I had 180 gr hardcast fail to stop a large sow at 6-8 feet (5 shots in the neck, behind the ear) in a GP-100.

I also saw a 45-70 fail on a 50 yard shot (hit the spine and knocked the pig out cold==woke up a 1/2 hour later and ran off==I dropped him with my 300 Win Mag). Saw another take six 45 long Colt hardcasts and stand there looking at me (trying to figure out how to get at me across an arroyo) while I reloaded, then ran off. On the other hand, my Sharps would consistently hit a steel/boiler plate pig at 500 yards and killed one pig at about 400. We had one old guy who consistently did that with an 1886 in some caliber-33 Win or something like that. Another regularly got his meat with a 38-55 lever and BP loads.

Placement is key but, as Bob Ruark said, "Use enough gun!".

 

[sigp220.45]

I would definitely go with the 30/30, especially since you don't plan to reload. You'll be able to get ammo at any WalMart and most gas stations.

Don't overlook used guns and store brand guns, either. I doubt most 30/30s in used gun racks have seen more than four boxes of ammo through them. I own both Winchesters and Marlins, but the smoothest and most accurate is a 200 buck Glenfield.

 

[chief38]

The 45-70 is a fantastic heavy duty rifle for taking just about any 4 legged game in N. America. Recoil is not for the shy and unless you are going to reload, I'd stay away from it. Reloading the 45-70 can easily turn the cartridge into a pleasant shooting rifle and an accurate one as well but with Factory loadings I doubt you will want to shoot it much.

I load 300 grain lead Bullets rather than the standard 405 grain and use a reduced powder charge - I can shoot it about 20 - 30 rounds before re-casing the rifle. With the heavy loads it's a 7 round day!

 

[one eye joe]

I OWN A SMALL COLLECTION OF MARLIN LEVER GUNS RANGING FROM A GUIDE GUN DOWN TO SEVERAL IN .22LR. FOR A BEGINNERS GUN, THAT YOU WILL KEEP FOR THE DURATION, BUY YOURSELF A NICE .22LR. IT WILL ALWAYS SERVE YOU WELL FOR TARGET SHOOTING, VARMINTS AND SMALL GAME, AND JUST PLINKING. I STILL HAVE THE ORIGINAL ONE THAT I PURCHASED BRAND NEW, CLOSE TO 60 YEARS AGO......

OF THE 2 THAT YOU ARE CONSIDERING, THE 30-30 IS THE LOGICAL CHOICE, GIVEN YOUR LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE, AND THE AREA WHERE YOU LIVE. THE 30-30 WILL KNOCK DOWN ANYTHING THAT YOU MIGHT ENCOUNTER IN THE WOODS--IF YOU DO YOUR PART. PROPER SHOT PLACEMENT IS THE KEY, IN HUNTING WITH ANY CALIBER ! ! !

A WIDE VARIETY OF LOADS IN 30-30 ARE USUALLY READILY AVAILABLE ON STORE SHELVES. AT LEAST 2 AMMO MANUFACTURERS, HORNADY AND WINCHESTER, ARE PRODUCING 30-30 AMMO WITH A POINTED POLYMER TIP. IT CAN BE SAFELY CARRIED IN THE TUBULAR MAGAZINES OF LEVER GUNS. IT EXTENDS THE HUNTING RANGE OF THE 30-30.....

 

[old tanker]

In 1895 when the .30-30 hit the streets, if you thought it would about split the difference between .32-20 and .32-40 in your old Ballard, that Winchester would have been a revelation!