45-70 question

[LostintheOzone]

I've lost all interest in the .45-70, but shot several for many years including an 1895 Marlin. I couldn't imagine loading up anything stout for that rifle because of recoil. It shot very well with the Lyman #457193 (about 420 grs. and IMR4198 or 5744 loaded to about 1250 fps, a level where recoil was tolerable. As I recall, such loads were accurate in other .45-70s as well. I tried #3031 but couldn't get the accuracy with that one.

I also used the #457122 HP design (about 330 grs.) and 5744 in the Marlin, loaded to a MV of just over 1400 fps. Accurate, but my notes indicate nothing about recoil, so I'll assume it wasn't bad. Such lighter bullets will certainly help with recoil reduction if you don't shoot them fast, and there's little to be gained by shooting anything fast in a .45-70. It still has a trajectory like a slow baseball.

My remaining .45-70, a Shiloh Sharps, gather dust as I much prefer shooting my Winchester 1885 Traditional Hunter in .38-55, bought new about twenty-five years ago.

Might have to look into the 38-55 option. I have a feeling none of this is going to come together at one time like it would 3 years ago. Might have to be a project where I pick up the components when I find them. Doesn't look like much of anything can be bought tomorrow except bullets.

 

[TIMETRIPPER]

I've been casting a Lyman 385 gr bullet for a my 45-70s for years. Standard load with these is 12 grains of Unique. Makes for accurate and pleasant shooting.
The 45-70 can be a fun cartridge to shoot and it can also be sheer terror when loaded up in a strong action.
I also have a pair of 38-55 rifles and enjoy them as well, casting several different bullets in the 250- 265 gr range. But I will say that finding ammo components for the 45-70 is easier than for the 38-55. Especially jacketed bullets and brass.

John

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I own 4 45-70 rifles: 1873 Trapdoor Carbine, 1986 Browning production of 86 Winchester, a 1975 Production Shiloe Sharps, and a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun.

I look at them as using four different cartridges that are shaped the same and use the same dies.

The Sharpes and trapdoor carbine but use Black powder but are in no way similar! The 86, is a great full power hunter and plinker. The guide gun has two loads. 1st, 300 rain RNFP Coated and a case full of Trail Boss. (less felt recoil that my 92 45 Colt with cowboy loaded ammo!) 2nd. 405 grain hard cast RNFP wGC loaded to 2150 fps using IMR 3031 (still in the hot lever action pressure range) This is very accurate and very high recoil, but will stop man eating animals! I have rapid fired 5 rounds in 1.3 seconds wearing a t-shirt. I also had tears in my eyes!

The 3 big variables:

1) Weapon selection (including butt plate/recoil pad style)

2) Ammo selection

3) Clothing selection

The 300gr/Trail Boss load is my plinking and tin can load.

Ivan

 

[venomballistics]

We all know supplies are tight. But you owe it to yourself, your loved ones, and anyone else in proximity at the time to do this right, and use the correct components.
That said, you might consider going with a lighter projectile than the classic 405g to further spare yourself recoil related abuse. The 45-70 is one of my favorite mistresses. I like to say it needs to be fired twice. The second shot is to reset the shoulder dislocated by the previous.
I believe there have been some very old loads using unique.
Roaming the wasteland in search of such data with a 300g would further tame it for you

 

[jag312]

I have real nice trapdoor Springfield and have been using 49 gr of Pyrodex RS behind a 405gr cast bullet with good results. Just picked up 5# of FFg Black powder so will be trying that....

For the trapdoor carbines and the trapdoor rifle that I shoot, I use 55 grains of FFg, some Cream of Wheat to fill the space, and a 405 grain, lead hollow base bullet lubed with SPG. 55 grains was the carbine load back in the day. Those guns speak with authority. Because the bores of the trapdoors varied in diameter, you need to use a lead hollow base bullet that will expand to fill the bore to get optimum accuracy. I once took apart an old .45-70 copper cased carbine cartridge to see how it was made. It used a 405 grain hollow base lead bullet. I guess the people at Springfield knew what they were doing.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

......
.......
I bought an 8# jug of AA5744 and have a little over a pound left. 17 rounds is 1# of lead downrange.

I'm not sure what you're saying about only 17 rounds from a pound of AA5744. Unless you're charging 412gr powder that's not possible.
With 405gr cast bullets you should get something like 200 rounds from a pound of AA5744.

 

[rockquarry]

I'm not sure what you're saying about only 17 rounds from a pound of AA5744. Unless you're charging 412gr powder that's not possible.
With 405gr cast bullets you should get something like 200 rounds from a pound of AA5744.

He's talking about a pound of lead making 17 bullets.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

He's talking about a pound of lead making 17 bullets.

Thank you, I guess I just read it wrong. That makes a whole lot more sense lol.

 

[Doug M.]

The cartridge has real value under some circumstances, but as far as I know, I will not experience any of those. I have not got much time running a lever gun and it showed last time I took out my 30-30, but I am waiting for Ruger to make the Marlin 1894 in .357 as that has a lot of potential uses for me.

 

[jeeps]

if you want to make mild loads, use Unique and go anywhere from 10gr to 14gr with lead bullets to find one you like that's accurate. Its all I use with my trapdoors and I think 11.5gr was the sweet spot for me with a 350gr projectile. Accurate but mild recoil.

I use a hard cast Master cast from Edon P.A. 405 grain flat tip with a large pistol primer and 14 grains of Unique in an 1886 Winchester lever action and my son in a Marlin Guide gun. Shoots great and puts Deer down fast.

 

[StrawHat]

…
For the trapdoor carbines and the trapdoor rifle that I shoot, I use 55 grains of FFg, some Cream of Wheat to fill the space, and a 405 grain, lead hollow base bullet lubed with SPG. 55 grains was the carbine load back in the day. Those guns speak with authority...

I am surprised your rifle would shoot to the sights with the carbine load.

… Because the bores of the trapdoors varied in diameter, you need to use a lead hollow base bullet that will expand to fill the bore to get optimum accuracy. I once took apart an old .45-70 copper cased carbine cartridge to see how it was made. It used a 405 grain hollow base lead bullet. I guess the people at Springfield knew what they were doing...

Actually, the cup base used by the Armory was their to regulate the weight of the bullet. They used a proper diameter bullet and yes, it would slug up but no more than a flat based bullet would.

Kevin

 

[msinabottle]

Get a case/cartridge gauge for the .45-70. That big, long, thin case can have strange adventures in the sizing die. But that round just drips with fascinating history. When you hit almost ANYTHING with a .45-70-500, it went down. Even a Spaniard with a 7mm mauser.

Best!

 

[shil]

I have one of the early 1895's with microgroove rifling and no safety button. Added: Recoil pad. Trapdoor-level loads are fine.
The published loads for the Marlins are eye-openers to shoot! Pain builds character.

 

[john17427]

I load 300's and 325's with 3031 for my 1886. I love recoil, but my shoulder doesn't anymore so we're frequently at odds. I bought one of these as a compromise. Kick Killer Recoil Pad, Lace-Up

 

[kb1903]

45-70

I load 45-70 for my 1976 built Marlin 1895 using the 300 grain flat nose hollow point jacketed from Sierra or Hornady and 53 grains of 3031 with a mag primer. Very accurate. Recoil is pretty stout, especially from a bench, BUT, when shooting offhand at a buck I have never been aware of the recoil. Deer do the 2 step- 2 steps and they are down and out for the count.