.45 ACP +P reloads

[NKJ nut]

This is something that will get a gun blown up by a rookie faster than an over charge and is dangerous, dangerous information.


DO NOT FOLLOW IT!


I understand the point and yes, those are issues that should be taken into consideration but more firearms, and yes 45ACP to 9mm semi autos especially have been blown up due to bullet setback issues, over a double charge any day.

Statements like this need qualification. Can you seat deeper than listed OAL? Sure! There is just more to it than that though and it needs to be said, not left for a newbie to hazard into. If you shorten up the OAL on any recipe, and remember it is a recipe with a bunch of ingredients (OAL being one) you need to reduce the charge weight of powder as well. You can not do one and leave the other undone, period.

In the Speer #5 there is an interesting section that folks should read about this subject. Remember, it was published long before the "wonder auto" era was even thought about!

It is on page 274 and 275 and roughly states that "seating depth into the cartridge case has more effect on pressure and velocity than does crimp or lack of crimp on the bullet."

Seems to me, it must be important then!

I agree completely. Reducing OAL is something that can get you in a lot of trouble. Pressure can build real fast when OAL is reduced. FWIW pressure increases do not necessarily translate into velocity increases, so a chronograph reading is only giving you part of the story.

Skip, may have been a bit plain spoken about this but I believe it was justified. Information posted is for the benefit of all who read the post; Members, nonmembers, advanced Handloaders and novices. We should take that into account when we post.

I know Skip personally and he would never intentionally insult anyone, but he is given to plain speaking. I for one appreciate that, and only wish more people were like him.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I'm impressed, you have pressure testing equip? It will vary of course w/ the pistol used & the OAL. SPeer lists 7.3gr of Unique under a 200gr jacketed for 984fps as max. So yep, the 7.5gr under a LSWC could be into +P range, again depending on AOL. Which is why I stated depending on bullet style & OAL.

I don't have pressure testing equipment. I do have access to data that was pressure tested. The load of 7.5 grains with the 200 gr #68 is running 23,000 PSI which is SAAMI spec for +P.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I know Skip personally and he would never intentionally insult anyone, but he is given to plain speaking. I for one appreciate that, and only wish more people were like him.

More like me! The world ain't ready for that, Brother Jessie!

In one of my favorite movies, McClintock, Dragoo stutters through telling Katherine that she used to be "nice people" and Maureen O'Hara looks to John Wayne to rebuke him.

John Wayne comes up with one of my favorite lines to "spank" (that comes about physically later in the movie)her verbally. He says: "You'll have to excuse him, he just doesn't know any better than to tell the truth!"

I guess I'm just as ignorant!

 

[NKJ nut]

"You'll have to excuse him, he just doesn't know any better than to tell the truth!"

I guess I'm just as ignorant!

I know what you mean that's one of my faults too.

 

[matsu]

the Southwest pistol league used 7.5gr early on but dropped to 7.2gr when pressure test showed load was to high

 

[Skip Sackett]

Personal attack?

I just read your post. Yeah, it was a personal attack. Just like someone knocking your door down when they see the back of your house on fire is trespassing!

Most folks aren't going to complain as you lead them to safety, even if they do have to replace a door!

Rude? No, abrupt. Some folks just need to be "grabbed up and brought to a halt." There are times, not every time, when I'm just the person to do that. We all have personalities, some are abrasive, like mine.

I wasn't pointing out how stupid you were/are. That wasn't the point to the post at all. I was pointing out how ignorant the information was, plain and simple. Bad information. You corrected it, OK, good for you and thanks. You may have saved some newbie his eye or maybe his kid's nose, by clarifying yourself.

The whole point to my post was that we ALL, me included, need to make double sure of what we post when it comes to reloading issues.

While we may know exactly what we mean, and have done things for years and years without incident, some new loader will totally misunderstand what we post, seat a bullet too deep and KABOOM, all the while following our sage wisdom.

Rude? Yeah, just like that.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

When you put up a post with huge letters like that, it isn't just to call attention to your point. You do it to make yourself look wise and someone else foolish, so yea it is a personal attack. We have been down this road before. Being abrasive gets one nowhere, and will even turn guys away from reading what you may have to say. That isn't doing anyone any favor either. It's easy to be abrupt sometimes. We all do it too. Still, you do it way too much here, and it isn't necessary or wanted by many. When you have a problem with a post, especially one you feel strongly about, have you ever thought about following the forum rules and contacting the poster off forum first? I have never seen you do it. There are rules here, and they do apply to us all, including you.

Your attitude is very condescending to many people here. You seem to feel that you are the only one with any real knowledge about reloading. You jumped on the post above without apparently reading all of the post, or the ones above it. I never once mentioned deep seating a bullet, yet you r comments would indicate that I did. We were talkng about using heavier than normal cast bullets for the .45 ACP, and none of my manuals that actually list heavier than normal bullets have a seating depth listed. They appear to presume that you will use the cannelure. When I mentioned not following the manuals recommended seating depth, I was referring to those given for normal bullets, while trying to use a heavier bullet, and I think most anyone who was following along knew it, and so did you.

I know you have your followers here, and that is fine with me. It doesn't give you the right to be rude to anyone that you disagree with. I have received several messages from guys who knew what I was driving at in my post, and agree with it. Maybe they would prefer not to get into a debate with anyone here on forum. I don't know.

There are right ways to go about things, and there are wrong ways. You are obviously too proud to admit it though, and I fully expect you to post another response about how you are always so right. Have at it. I'm done here. There is no percentage in arguing with someone who thinks they are always right.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Here is what I do know G4F. This is a public forum. People read this that are not members and at every level of experience in our wonderful hobby. For those folks, I have addressed issues that I felt were poorly explained at that level. You may feel you explained it quite well. OK, got it.

Personally, I didn't think it was explained well enough for that level of reloader or I would have said nothing.

As for being brusque, sorry that offended you. I, and I could be wrong, felt that it was so poorly stated as to be dangerously unsafe for "newbies". I felt the post was addressing a safety issue and I will by all means tenaciously address issues that are capable of being so misunderstood as to be physically dangerous to innocents.

If that tenacity is taken by some as being harsh or unkind, they misunderstand the intent.

As for "followers", I have never intended it to be so and doubt it is, especially seeing I am considered so harsh and abrasive by so many.

 

[David Sinko]

For those who are loading heavy charges of 2400 in the .45 ACP, Auto Rim and Super, are these compressed loads? Is 2400 slow enough that you don't run up the pressures to dangerous levels? And how about Power Pistol? How similar are these two powders?

Dave Sinko

 

[Skip Sackett]

Not sure what pressure.

For those who are loading heavy charges of 2400 in the .45 ACP, Auto Rim and Super, are these compressed loads? Is 2400 slow enough that you don't run up the pressures to dangerous levels? And how about Power Pistol? How similar are these two powders?

Dave Sinko

Dave,
My loads with the H&G #502, 245gr from my alloy, has seen velocities from 650fps to 1100+fps out of my M625JM. One such load was 14gr of 2400. It was a load similar to what Elmer Keith suggests in Sixgun Loads. They were not compressed loads.

It is a handful and I'm not too enamored with 2400. Even with magnum primers I found it to leave a bunch of powder in the tube. I choose to use SR4756 for my heavy 45ACP loads. Physics being what it is, powder weight plays a part in recoil. I can get higher velocity with less SR4756 over 2400. It is much cleaner and I don't feel like I "need" to use magnum primers.

I know that the old timers didn't suggest using magnum primers but being the "technically OCD" type like I am, I want the numbers on the chronograph to be as consistent as possible. I get lower ES and SD numbers using magnum primers with 2400. That being said, and here comes the big disclaimer, you have to work your loads up with the components you use. Don't take a full charge of 2400, or any other powder for that matter, and arbitrarily change to magnum primers. The results can be seriously dangerous. Start over and work up.