45 ACP SWC

[akoda]

I have loaded a bunch of 45 ACP 200 gr SWC, all past plunk test and I have shot a few hundred with no issue. I went to the rang last night and had quite a few FTF in my SA operator 1911. Measuring many of the loads this AM and see .473 at the case mouth. I can crimp more but how much, the are Bayou bullets coated. I tried different mags and had some in each from various places in magazine.



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[SS336]

I load a 200gr SWC to OAL 1.235 and taper crimp to .471.
I have shoot this load for many years in 1911's and it works in my pistols.
Hope this and the other information you will get helps.

 

[glenwolde]

I've had problems with failure to fire with reloads in a 9mm Stainless Loaded Target Springfield. Factory ammo was fine. The gun never had a prominent primer imprint though even at it's best.

I discovered something about Springfields. In today's popular (and to my mind incorrect) terminology they are "Series 70" which is used to indicate that they do not have a firing pin safety. So if you drop a loaded one on it's muzzle it could discharge, just as the originals did.

The problem is Springfield wanted to not have a firing pin safety yet also reduce it's risk of firing when dropped, and pass "drop tests". Their solution was to use a lightweight titanium firing pin and a somewhat heavy firing pin spring. I think they engineered the force right up close to the minimum and nailed it.

The slight variations from spec in my reloads with mixed components was enough to cause failures.

I replaced the firing pin spring with a spring from Brownells (Ed Brown 087-000-019WB) and it greatly improved the firing pin imprint and solved the problem. I also ordered a normal weight firing pin, but the spring alone did the trick.

 

[akoda]

This is all starline brass, I plan on pushing them back through and crimping a tad more and give them another try, since most feed I must be right at the limit for reliable feeds.

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[Krogen]

Take a close look at seating depth. Not LOA per se, but the protrusion of the forward band from the case. With a SWC, there's a "shoulder" at that point. You probably don't want that to be flush with the case mouth. In my experience that "shoulder" should protrude between 0.020" and 0.040" from the case mouth. Then the shoulder rides up the feedramp. This greatly improved feeding of 200 gr SWCs in my pistols.

P.S. FTF=Fail to Fire? or Fail to Feed? (I hate acronyms and abbreviations! )

 

[max]

I taper crimp mine and I just checked and it is .468.

 

[akoda]

Sorry I guess I wasn't specific FTF in this case is failure to feed

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[Rosco Shooter]

I seat my SWC bullets deep enough so that a "thumbnail width" of the shoulder is visible above the case mouth, and taper crimp to a diameter of .0468. Hope this helps.

 

[akoda]

Thanks all, the shoulder is .02, as small as I want to go, tightening up crimp

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[boatbum101]

I taper crimp my swaged lead to .469 , cast you can crimp harder .

 

[rockquarry]

I crimp as little as possible, just enough to chamber properly and prevent bullet setback with the SAECO #069 design (copy of the H&G #68) cast SWC. I size bullets and taper crimp to about .471" outside diameter. I seat the bullets to give an OAL of 1.24" (extremely little of the bullet shoulder above case neck). These work fine in four 1911-type Colts, a Springfield Armory 1911 A1, and a P220 Sig.

 

[2152hq]

Not all 1911 pistols on the market are (re)designed to handel SWC ammo reliably. The original wasn't designed for it though some would feed it, many not w/o some modification.

Does the SA version say it's set up fr SWC ammo?,,or just for RN style bullet.

I'm not at all familiar with the modern 1911 pistols put out by all the different aftermarket mfg'rs and there a lot of them!
But it's just something that comes to mind.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Since it is F(ailure)T(o) F(eed) the crimp (and firing pin & spring) probably doesn't have a lot to do with it...?

Determining the correct OAL for SWCs in semi-automatic pistols can depend upon the individual ramp/chamber, the magazines and the specific bullet design.

In my experience, once you have determined at what length a specific bullet will feed reliably (or NOT?) in your 1911 you can easily (hopefully?) then adjust the powder charge, crimp, etc., to attain your desired velocity/accuracy. Start with enough powder to reliably work the action and load up a series of bullets shorter and longer to find the sweet spot. It usually doesn't take a lot of adjustment: you'll find out pretty quick if you are moving in the wrong direction. Most bullets can eventually work, but not all...

"If 'da bullet just don't fit, you must desist."

Cheers!

P.S. The MBC 200gr RNFP Hi-Tek Coated bullets feed just great in my 45acp pistols loaded at the cannelure...

 

[Patrick L]

I'm more intrigued that you fired several hundred with no issues, now there is an issue?

Can you elaborate on the exact problem? Nosedive? Jumping the mag lips too soon? Failure to go fully into battery? A little more info might help diagnose the problem.

Also, could the gun just be dirty? Don't overlook the small stuff.

 

[stansdds]

Since you had fired a few hundred with no issues and now they won't feed, something has changed. Could be a:

bad magazine or two
weak magazine springs
weak recoil spring
extractor not allowing the rim to smoothly ride up the breech face
crud build up in the chamber/barrel lead
seating stem on the seating die backed out
taper crimp die backed out
change in bullet (diameter)
change in brass (wall thickness)

 

[akoda]

Thanks all for your replies.

The gun was cleaned prior to this last range trip. Some failure to feeds occurred with the 1st round in the mag, so not related to powder.

I'm not sure what a nosedive is but it looks to get stuck at an angle sliding in, every round I had issues with was then placed in the chamber and fired , like I said all passed plunk test, I plunk almost ever round. I think I am just on the line of what feeds and what doesn't. I try to minimize the taper crimp and think 8 just need to go further. I am very confident I get to .468 to .470 will do it. I'll clean again before next trip. It's all starline brass

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[rockquarry]

I've never used coated bullets. Even if you crimp to an outside diameter of .473" (which is max but should be okay), bullet diameter could have a bearing on this. If your gun worked well for a while with the same loads, check on your overall length, too. Your seat die may have loosened. OAL has to be just right with some bullets for 100% feeding reliability. If you happen to have a similar uncoated, conventionally lubed cast bullet design, try those as well.

As for Springfield Armory 1911s not feeding well with SWCs, I've had two. Both worked fine with SWCs straight out-of-the-box, unmolested.

 

[PPCSHOOTER]

BULLSEYE SHOOTERS HAVE BEEN LOADING THE #68 BULLET FOR DECADES. INSTEAD OF MEASURING O.A.L. , TRY THIS . MEASURE FORM THE BASE OF THE ROUND TO THE SHOULDER OF THE BULLET. MOST BULLSEYE SHOOTERS WANT THAT LENGTH TO BE FROM .92" TO .925". CRIMP IS ALL OVER THE BOARD. IN THE 50's AND 60'S. THE CRIMP THE CUSTOM BUILDERS LIKE JOHN GILES AND RICHARD SCHOCKY ADVISED WAS .463". NOW A DAYS MOST BULLSLEYE GUYS ARE CRIMPING AT .467" TO .469". SWAGED BULLETS I'M AT 469". HARD CAST BULLETS I'M AT .467". JP

 

[STORMINORMAN]

It appears to me you need to load those SWCs longer... Why so short?

P.S. The plunk test merely shows the bullet will fit into the chamber when dropped in...

Feeding is entirely different. I don't understand the fixation with the crimp. If the bullets are not moving forward or backward what does the crimp have to do with feeding reliably?

You obviously don't want bullets to be forced backwards into the cases as they chamber because of possible excessive pressure: but feeding a SWC has to do with its length, where it intersects the ramp. If you have to load them that short just to fit in the magazine that's probably where the feeding problem lies...

 

[stansdds]

Nose dive: The slide moves forward to strip the next round out of the magazine, but instead of the round remaining in alignment with the chamber, it noses down and the tip of the bullet gets stuck on the feed ramp.


Your rounds actually appear to be loaded a bit short. Seating the bullet deeply can result the case bulging out more at the base of the bullet. This can result in the round not fully chambering. It will get part way into the chamber and the bulge in the case wall will bind in the chamber. Also, the taper crimp looks a bit under-crimped.