.45 ACP vs. .45 Auto Rim

[KarmannGhia]

My reason for using 45ar is my 455 Webley shaved for 45acp, so I load my 45ar down to 455 specs to avoid my own confusion on what is safe for my British topbreak and what is safe for all my other 45s. I have never purchased factory loaded 45ar. I don't use the Webley for anything other than a range toy, so I don't care about peek performance.

 

[Kinman]

Moon Clips Bad, Auto Rim Good.

I was demonstrating to a good friend the difference and had removed a round from a loaded full moon clip to show him how it would drop in and work. Then I loaded it back in the clip and just like its done before, hung up and made loading the loaded full moon difficult. Granted I did not use a "proper ting" to remove the cartridge but this is just one more reason I do not like moon clips. When I first started in the .45 ACP revolver game and being a late bloomer will admit to it being within the last ten years or so I was not enamored with clips from the get go. A friend of mine worked as an armorer for a State Patrol and was allowed to compete in their shoots. He told me how he lost a match due to a problem with a clip, switched to AR and never looked back. I have done the same and about the only reason I would have for using moon clips would be if I reloaded for .45 ACP, which I do not. .45 ACP and .45 Colt are two revolver/pistol cartridges I've never gotten into reloading. I've never broke down and even owned a .45 Colt and prefer to fire factory loads through the few .45 autos I own. The same holds true for .41 magnum and 10mm, never saw the benefit and stayed away. Been a .44 fan all my shooting life.

 

[Krogen]

45 Auto Rim Available from Starline

This thread has been an education for me. Thanks to all of you.

I thought I'd post a followup regarding 45 Auto Rim brass. Starline seems to be the only supplier these days. However, their website showed it wasn't available to buy or backorder. A few weeks ago, I called them and talked with a very pleasant lady. She said they were getting ready to produce another run and would be happy to take my order, even though the website said otherwise. I'm happy to report it shipped yesterday.

As of today their website shows 45 AR as backorder-able. It says "backordered" which isn't quite accurate. If you've been waiting for 45 AR, here's your chance!

45 Auto Rim Brass - Large Pistol - Brass Cases

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

DON'T OVER THINK IT!!!!!!. Cases are different but BOTH load the same bullets and powder charges......BTW I have 4 45acp revolvers and I use both in all as the mood strikes.......Not complicated at all.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

The simple answer is the difference is in the firearms they are designed for

45 acp is for the Colt 1911 semi-auto and it's relatively low pressure .

The 45 Auto Rim is for the Large N-Framed revolver - 1917 of both Colt and S&W ... these can handle higher pressure loads and handloaders like to take advantage of this .
Gary

re: Higher pressure....Only a little(not worth going for).......Mighty thin under those locking notches.......Have saw a 45acp(625) with dimples in the cyl where the locking notches are.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I got some 1/3 moon clips thinking they would be better for pocket carry of reloads, but the 1/2 moons are almost as flat in your pocket and easier to reload with. 4 1/2 moons take up way less room than 2 loaded full moons and way less than 2 speed loaders and no big bulge in pocket.

That's why when I ccw a 45acp it's always in a 1911 with a flat clip in a pocket. I won't carry ANY moons of any type in my pockets. They make neat little belt pouches for full moon. And also a belt device with a peg to slide a full moon down onto.

 

[FN509Fan]

While the BMT N45-6 is a great way to go, I use this Model from TKC

I use the tube with a notch method to de clip.

I'd probably hurt myself using something this fancy. I have a 10" length of 1/2" PVC with a cap on one end with a hole in it and cut a notch at the other end about 1/16" and half the width of the tube. I use to both clip and de-clip full moon clips. I don't think I used the half moons much as I bought the full moon clips right away. I shoot mostly at indoor ranges, paying by the hr/half hr and being able to preload clips and dump and reload quickly allows me to do more shooting. It also saves time dealing with spend brass.


I have a 625-6 5" barrel in SS by the way which I love shooting but recently acquired a New Vaquero in 45 Colt which has also been a lot of fun to shoot. And I handload/reload for both AR and Colt on a single stage RCBS JR3 press.

 

[damienph]

I load almost exclusively.45AR brass for my revolver and use .45ACP load data.

I also have a couple of boxes of .45AR+P Buffalo Bore ammunition. I think that you could use .45ACP load data with your Auto Rim brass without any problems.

 

[DWalt]

The 45 Auto Rim was brought out by Peters in 1923(?) to allow the shooters of the S&W Model 1917 a rimmed cartridge to use. The rim is thick to duplicate the thickness of the moon clip and the rim on the 45 ACP cartridge. It was intended to be used mostly with lead bullets thus at lower pressures, but it was merely the ACP case with a rim. Identical in every way except the rim.

They can be loaded to the same pressure. Starline brass is actually stronger than the original stuff and can most likely handle 45 Super pressures.

There's was never any consideration of using them in the Wesley or other improperly converted revolvers.
Q
Kevin

Most articles say that Peters introduced the .45 AR in 1921. However, they published a promotional advertising flyer for it in 1919. Whether it was in production at that time is not known. Peters did not waste much time after the end of WWI. .45 AR is definitely shown in the 1922 Peters price list.

 

[Ed Fowler]

I like my S&W mid of 1918 625-6 revolver so much I purchased a Dillon Press just to reload for the rimmed 45 brass. My favorite load is 200 grain lead swc with 4.4 grains of 700X. I purchased 500 rounds of Starline brass and started at first just loading the first 100 rounds of brass over and over again. I found that after a while the rims of the 45 AR brass had expanded too much to allow them to fit in my Dillon's case
holder and I had to start off on the second 100. It took about 50 shots to cause this amount of stretching of the rim, no cases split.

One thing I learned is that the brass and Smith & Wesson could easily handle a double charge of 700 X (8.4 grains) it was very loud, shot about 7 inches low at 88 yards recoil was impressive! Ejection showed no swelling of the case or chamber. The double charge was my fault, I do not think that a 45 ACP pistol could stand this kind of load. (Do not intend to find out!
This revolver is as accurate as any other pistols I shoot, this includes a S&W 952 West German Sig P210 or Swenson.

 

[biku324]

If I can't do it with a 255 grain LFN at 850 fps (Buffalo Bore 45 Auto Rim standard pressure, perhaps I need a rifle.

.45 Auto Rim Standard Pressure Pistol and Handgun Ammo
SKU: 31A/20.... .45 Auto Rim Standard Pressure Pistol and Handgun Ammo