.45 ACP vs. everything else

[PALADIN85020]

Yeah, I know. I'm guilty of occasionally carrying .22 LR, .38 special, 9mm or .357 magnum handguns, but mostly on the theory that some gun is better than no gun.

However, for self defense in a SHTF scenario, to me, the .45 ACP cartridge makes the most sense. It seems the optimum combination of effectiveness, control and firepower in a semiauto handgun.

I own a number of larger semiautomatic handguns; including many made by S&W, Colt, Sig-Sauer, Glock, Kimber and other wartime 1911 manufacturers. What most of them have in common is that they are chambered in .45 ACP.

Looking at size, the .45 ACP is larger than, say, the 9mm or .380 auto. But it can still be packed into a fairly small package - there are many subcompact .45 pistols that can take advantage of this round.

As far as control is concerned, the .45 ACP is a pussycat compared to a .357 magnum or even a .38+P in a lightweight revolver. It gives your hand a shove rather than a smack; this makes for easier repeat shots. I've taught small-statured rank beginner females and children to shoot a 1911 quite well inside of an hour.

Back in the early 20th Century, the Thompson-LaGarde tests conclusively showed that the minimum combat pistol caliber should be .45. As a result, most of our U.S. issue pistols and revolvers were in .45 caliber until the advent of M9 pistol (9mm) in 1985. Experience with the full metal jacket 9mm rounds has caused many of those in our armed services, particularly the elite outfits, to return to the time-tested .45 ACP. If you want to know more about this, check my article on .45 service handguns in the 2003 Gun Digest. Here's just a sampling of our 20th Century service .45s:

Time has not erased the validity of the Thompson-LaGarde tests. If you want to put effective firepower on a target with a pistol, the old .45 ACP has no equal. There are more powerful cartridges and there are smaller cartridges, but none that give you the optimum effectiveness that this one does.

Here are some samples from my personal stable of .45s - the ones I would use for serious social work when a rifle or shotgun might not be available:

I rest my case.

John

 

[BuckeyeChuck]

This, again?

 

[novalty]

yeah, but what weapon's lubricant do you use???

 

[Rule3]

Why then do most LEOS and Govt agents carry 40 SW these days?

Nothing against the 45 in any way.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Why then do most LEOS and Govt agents carry 40 SW these days?

Nothing against the 45 in any way.

I think that it's mostly because they can cram the .40 S&W into gun platforms normally using the 9mm Luger. The .40 is a good round, but the .45 offers more frontal area and is much more controllable. In short, the .40 is a compromise, and the .45 is not. 9mm and .40 hi-caps encourage pray and spray; the .45 can do the job with fewer rounds. If you have to have hi-cap, the Glock 21 and the HK USP will offer that, but I don't think it's necessary with the .45. I've never been tempted to own a .40, and therefore I don't. I was talking with a Phoenix cop not long ago, and his department lets them choose either .40 or .45. He chose the Glock 21, and says a lot of his fellow officers make the same choice. For a duty gun, bulk is not as much of an issue, and the proven effectiveness of the .45, particularly with hollowpoint 230-grainers, is often preferable by the LEOs.

John

 

[9c1 lover]

a .45 will take an arm off if shot in the pinky finger. no other round is capable of stopping a badguy. 9mm has been known to bounce off of heavy winter clothing.

.45 all the way.

 

[venomballistics]

I agree with 45 for the stated reasons as well as uniformity.
you will always be able to find some 45 even if you have to scavenge it off fallen bodies.
this cannot be said about some of the other highly effective rounds such as 10MM 400 corbon 41 magnum 44 magnum 45 LC 50 AE and 41 AE .. though out of these, 44 magnum might fair well in this consideration, but not AS well as 45 auto.
Also, the gun itself needs to be measured in the same way.
can we find parts for a sig, HK or a revolver in the same way we might scavenge 1911 parts to keep her running

 

[Rule3]

I carry a HK USP C in 40. A few extra rounds and pretty much equal ballistics. 1.3 mm less diameter. It will work.

9mm bouncing of heavy winter clothing? Sure would like to see the proof of that. Must be with the 30 Carbine bouncing off Korean soldiers frozen jackets.

 

[Rule3]

I agree with 45 for the stated reasons as well as uniformity.
you will always be able to find some 45 even if you have to scavenge it off fallen bodies.
this cannot be said about some of the other highly effective rounds such as 10MM 400 corbon 41 magnum 44 magnum 45 LC 50 AE and 41 AE .. though out of these, 44 magnum might fair well in this consideration, but not AS well as 45 auto.
Also, the gun itself needs to be measured in the same way.
can we find parts for a sig, HK or a revolver in the same way we might scavenge 1911 parts to keep her running

You left out the all important Glock

 

[tops]

I remember when the only high capacity 9mm was a Browning High Power and an old man told me that if you had a 9mm you needed a lot of bullets. If you had a .45 acp 7 bullets was enough. I am now 70 yrs. old and have shot a lot of pistols and a lot of bullets and nothing I have seen shows me that I was told wrong. Larry

 

[BaldEagle1313]

I didn't come up with the line, but I'll repeat it here.

"A nine millimeter may expand. A forty-five will not shrink."

 

[jag312]

Very nice collection, Paladin, but where is your 1911A1 Singer?

 

[PALADIN85020]

Very nice collection, Paladin, but where is your 1911A1 Singer?

I was going to take out a second mortgage on our house to get one, but my wife nixed the idea - who knows why. She said she'd rather have a Lamborghini. I don't know why some women get like that...

John

 

[9c1 lover]

I carry a HK USP C in 40. A few extra rounds and pretty much equal ballistics. 1.3 mm less diameter. It will work.

9mm bouncing of heavy winter clothing? Sure would like to see the proof of that. Must be with the 30 Carbine bouncing off Korean soldiers frozen jackets.

trust me, it happens, a mall ninja told me.

 

[venomballistics]

You left out the all important Glock

I thought of it after I hit send ... I suppose they'd come in handy for bartering ... 3 or 4 glocks for a proper 1911 in a post apocalyptic world ... could get a tank of gas for one too

 

[scooter123]

I carry a 40 caliber Sig P239 and I don't feel at all "undergunned". I also find it very easy to control.

However, due to the difficulty in finding a 4 inch 610 for under a grand I decided to putchase a 625 JM and I am coming to understand the appeal of the 45 ACP. It is a VERY sweet shooting caliber and I've found it to be superb as a warmup gun for my P239. I'm also playing around with the idea of getting a P220 Carry to save a bit of wear on the P239.

 

[Out West]

Seems like American Rifleman has had a story featuring the 1911 every month for the last year. The stories from the World Wars are pretty compelling testimony in favor of the 45 acp.

Personally, I go through phases of caliber preference. Presently 45 is on top of my rotation. Not that I find my self in need - I'm not a Policeman or a GI. I'm the kind of guy that rarely gets into tight spots. But when I've got a 1911 hooked to my belt, I just feel there isn't much better protection available.

Some of you guys will probably laugh at this, but I've found the Clipdraw (a metal piece that goes under the grip and provides a belt clip) is just about perfect for a carry piece. With my SC Commander I can carry appendix or 4 o'clock. I can take it on and off with ease. The 1911 is amazingly flat. Consequently, is carries IWB great. It's very easy to dress around. The only mod to mine, other than the Clipdraw, is a SFS system. But I digress...

Summary: 45 acp good; 1911 great; inspires confidence.

Out
West

 

[30-30remchester]

It amazes me that there is such a reverence for the 45 ACP. I really like this cartridge, and it is the one cartridge I have beside my bed ready to repel all nightime badguys. However I have actually used and studied this cartridge. I have shot a few head of big game and am FAR from impressed with its stopping power or lack there of. I have also studied actual history of its use in combat. I have read many times of its failings. It is a grand cartridge just not the giant slayer I often hear about, from my experences and studies.

 

[9c1 lover]

It amazes me that there is such a reverence for the 45 ACP. I really like this cartridge, and it is the one cartridge I have beside my bed ready to repel all nightime badguys. However I have actually used and studied this cartridge. I have shot a few head of big game and am FAR from impressed with its stopping power or lack there of. I have also studied actual history of its use in combat. I have read many times of its failings. It is a grand cartridge just not the giant slayer I often hear about, from my experences and studies.

DUDE, it will RIP A MAN IN HALF at ten yards when you use hollow points. literally make 2 people out of one.

a .45 is the only thing that will put a man down.

i have seen a guy shot pont blank in the face with a 9mm and he laughed and kept advancing.

unless you can carry a 12 gauge, ( which will throw a person 15 feet) a .45 is the ONLY way to go.

i heard if you shoot a man in the face with a .45, they clean him up with a sponge! now that is stopping power you can count on.

 

[pawncop]

PALADIN85020,

I always knew you were very intelligent. You have just reinforced what I believed.