.45 Colt Nickel Plated Case Warning

[andyo5]

Is the 45 Colt just an obsolete relic?

Don't tell that to my M625 Mountain Gun. This is a 1 3/8" group shot at 15 yards, by a guy who is so farsighted that he can't even focus on the sights.

 

[TSQUARED]

Nickel plated brass will tend to split after several reloads irrespective of the brand. Recently I have observed a greater rate of case splitting upon reloading R-P brass than with either Federal or Winchester.

 

[PhilOhio]

Funny you should put up that target picture today, Andy. This morning I tried that same load for the first time, one you suggested yesterday, and got the same group size, just to the left of the bull; adjusted sights later. This is the first time I have ever been able to get a group of about 1.5" from 50 feet, shooting .45 LC in anything. It was in the 6" N frame Smith I built up for target shooting.

Regarding case failures, I discovered the wall is so thin on some R/P that with several, out of a box of 50, there were the beginnings of buckling at the cannelure, just from seating pressure. Bullets were 255 gr. classic SAA style, sized to .452, and cases were belled and expanded to about .450". There should not have been such buckling. Bullets were also well aligned before seating. But the buckling was so slight it did not interfere with chambering.

FYI Andy, I measured my Smith chamber mouths to be .4535, about as good as I could hope for... .0015 over bullet diameter.

 

[thedane]

PhilOhio,

I wouldn't trash your gun yet. I used 8.0 grs. Unique behind a 250 gr. CSWC for years. That was my standard load. It shot great in a 25-5 8 3/8" and a Colt New Frontier 7 1/2". In fact the Colt was so accurate I sold the 25-5 years ago. I've also shot Colt SAAs with that load with mixed results. The 7 1/2" barrels tended to work better for me.

Recently, I picked up a 25-5 4" and started to try to make it shoot accurately. Because the chambers are oversize, I tried a .454 bullet. I used both the Hornady Cowboy bullet (.454) and cast bullets that I sized at .454. I compared the results of my .452 sized bullets with the .454 and Unique loads of 8.0 and 8.5 grains in each.

I settled on 8.0 grs. of Unique and bullets sized at .452.

I usually shoot at 25 yds. But I'm confident that I could get 1 1/2" - 2" groups at 50 feet.

I have always had split cases with .45 Colt. They just seem to go with the territory. But the R-P Nickel plated were much worse.

 

[andyo5]

FYI Andy, I measured my Smith chamber mouths to be .4535, about as good as I could hope for... .0015 over bullet diameter.

Phil, It has been shown that moderately oversized throats do not harm accuracy. Undersized is the problem.
You are loading 0.452" bullets, but only belling the case IDs to 0.450"? I don't see how you can even get them into the cases! You should be belling the case IDs to a few thousandths over 0.452" with the powder die, just before inserting the bullet.

 

[tdan]

As many experienced reloaders have mentioned, Remington brass is mediocre at best. I am not a fan of nickel plated brass for roll crimped revolver rounds anyhow. Here's why: Unless you are very meticulous about trimming cases to the same length and chamfering, nickel cases end up launching micro particles of flaked off nickel plate down the bore of your revolver, as that bullet blows past that crimp. I personally do not want anything that has the potential of scratching my bore going along for the ride. The only Remington brass that I will pay for is for 221 Fireball. By the way........221 Fireball is one sweet shooting round in the proper rifle. While the Rem cases seem to deliver, I would pay double if Lapua or Norma did a run of Fireball cases!............That's just plain pitiful if shooters are getting split case necks with a low pressure round such as 45Colt.

 

[andyo5]

As many experienced reloaders have mentioned, Remington brass is mediocre at best. I am not a fan of nickel plated brass for roll crimped revolver rounds anyhow. Here's why: Unless you are very meticulous about trimming cases to the same length and chamfering, nickel cases end up launching micro particles of flaked off nickel plate down the bore of your revolver, as that bullet blows past that crimp. I personally do not want anything that has the potential of scratching my bore going along for the ride. The only Remington brass that I will pay for is for 221 Fireball. By the way........221 Fireball is one sweet shooting round in the proper rifle. While the Rem cases seem to deliver, I would pay double if Lapua or Norma did a run of Fireball cases!............That's just plain pitiful if shooters are getting split case necks with a low pressure round such as 45Colt.

I always start off a new batch of cases by uniforming them in length, then chamfering both outer and inner edges. Maybe that's why I haven't been getting split cases.

 

[thedane]

Here are a couple of pictures of my M25-5 4" and the associated targets. One group (1 1/2") was shot with my 255 gr. CSWC and 8.0 Grs. Unique at 50 ft. Five shot group 2 shots through the same hole. The other group (2") was shot with 250 gr. Commercial Cast RNFPs and 8.0 grs. Unique at 25 yds.

Both bullets were .452 diameter fired through oversized chamber throats (approximately .455/.456).

In my mind this is acceptable accuracy.

 

[andyo5]

Beautiful M25, Dane! Those grips are first rate.
Here's a pic of my M625

and here's a target I shot with my USFA SAA.

 

[thedane]

Andyo5,

Great shooting! I guess .45 Colts aren't so bad after all!!

 

[thedane]

I just received a letter from Remington.

"We believe that the nickel plate peeling may be related to a problem with a washing step prior to the plating process. The surface finish on the brass wasn't fully prepared to hold the nickel plating. Both a wash and a surface traetment are part of the plating preparation"

They are going to send me a check for $35.00. I think that's fair since I only sent back less than 50 cases.

Hope this is of some interest.

 

[Rule3]

That's good to hear that they admitted a problem and took care of it. That's the only way they know of a problem if customers tell them.

 

[NiklasP]

Loading 45 Colt for about 15 years, only one bullet ever gave consistently small groups for me in different revolvers, very soft lead swaged 255 grain, 0,455 diameter bullet that Remington has made forever.

The soft lead 255 grainer worked very well through throats from 0,452 to 0,454 and bores from 0,451 to 0,454. Just about any powder in amounts giving standard velocities (600 to 900 fps) gave respectable to excellent groups with this bullet. I quit buying all other 45 caliber bullets for revolvers.

I suspect that excessive splitting of 45 Colt cases is partly, even heavily, related to chamber sizes, which can be very generous on 45 Colts. Each revolver I used had very consistent chamber diameters, smallest on a R&D 45 Colt conversion cylinder and largest on Ruger -- and range brass was often even larger. Brass was trashed when it became too work hardened (happened quickly) or when it split, and lots split, especially after 5 or more loadings. I attributed rapid work hardening to generous chamber diameters in all but the R&D conversion cylinder -- my resizing dies just barely sized the brass small enough to drop into the R&D cylinder.

I too got rid of all my 45 Colts, and now mostly shoot a 44-40 Ruger and various 357s. 45 Colt was the least satisfying cartridge to load, over about 50 years of reloads, including 32-20 and 44-40, both often considered a pain to reload.

Niklas

 

[Reloader Fred]

I didn't see anyone suggest IMR Trail Boss for the .45 Colt, so I will. It's proven to be very accurate for me in this caliber. It's not meant to be a barn burner in the velocity department, but it is accurate with cast bullets. I prefer a 200 gr. RNFP for my .45 Colts, and it's accurate when combined with Trail Boss.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
One of the most accurate shells I shot was the old rn lead
CCI alu case 45 colt... Not made now..
Try Hornity 250 gr lead RN with a good dose of Unique.. 8 to 9 gr

 

[TSQUARED]

I load a lot of 9mm, 38 Special, 40 S&W, 44 special, and 45 ACP using both normal brass an nickel plated cases. Over the years i have noticed that nickel lated brass does not have the longevity of normal brass cases. There is a greater tendency for case splits which appears more frequently with Remington brass but does also occur with Winchester and Federal brass. I had one batch of 357 magnum R-P nickel plated cases in which ca. 5 to 10% would split upon each reloading.

 

[Nemo288]

I recently got a couple hundred Starline nickel .44 special cases.
As I started to size them after the first reload I noticed that
the nickel seems to gall a little on the carbide die. I broke down
and lubed the cases lightly and man, what a difference. After
polishing the die with some JB bore compound (more of a cleaning;
I don't think anything short of diamond dust will cut the carbide),
everything went very smoothly.
This is the first time I have ever used lube with a carbide die.
The Starline cases seem quite a bit thicker than others especially
near the base.
If you are experiencing scratches on the nickel give some lube a try.

---
Nemo

 

[Hondo44]

i had a lot of federal 32 mag. brass that would crack 3/4s the way down on the first reload, the brass was made when the cartidge first came out, i switched to starline and never had any more problems, this brass was nnot nickle plated.

I had the same problem. A complaint to Federal revealed that it was a known issue with the early 32 mag Fed brass. Apparently it was not properly annealed at the factory. They were actually recalled
and subsequent brass ever since has been fine.

 

[Allen-frame]

3 Year old thread on 45 Colt ( Remington nickel brass)

Bumping this one to the top for all of you loading 45 Colt today.

Lots of good info here .


Good luck

Allen frame

 

[Hondo44]

I never buy Remington brass or loaded ammo unless it is in a caliber nobody else makes, like .350 Rem Mag, .22 Rem Jet or, formerly, .45 Auto Rim.

Buff,

I have a box of loaded W.R.A. 45 ACP Auto Rim. I was very surprised. Just FYI, not trying to be picky, few know that it was also loaded by Winchester.