Youse gun, youse $$$. Have at it. In the end the turtle won the race........Not the hare.
.450 SMC - 10mm power out of a .45 ACP pistol with no modifications necessary?!
- Thread starter Echo40
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Youse gun, youse $$$. Have at it. In the end the turtle won the race........Not the hare.
ShootMeStraight
Member
My exact thoughts.
STORMINORMAN
Member
O.K., I will inquire further...
An H&K USP45 is stated to be ready to go. I've read of GLOCKs with 20+ lbs. recoil springs being an acceptable alternative...
There are other pistol in 45 acp that are rated for regular/continuous use of +P ammo: one being the Ruger American 45.
I happen to have one: what is your opinion as to its suitability for occasional use of the 45 SMC ammo?
Cheers?
An H&K USP45 is stated to be ready to go. I've read of GLOCKs with 20+ lbs. recoil springs being an acceptable alternative...
There are other pistol in 45 acp that are rated for regular/continuous use of +P ammo: one being the Ruger American 45.
I happen to have one: what is your opinion as to its suitability for occasional use of the 45 SMC ammo?
Cheers?
Autonomous
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My concern is the reliability of a semi-auto pistol shooting very heavy for caliber bullets.
A few years back at least one maker had to redesign his 220gr 10mm bullets for this reason.
A few years back at least one maker had to redesign his 220gr 10mm bullets for this reason.
OP
Echo40
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O.K., I will inquire further...
An H&K USP45 is stated to be ready to go. I've read of GLOCKs with 20+ lbs. recoil springs being an acceptable alternative...
There are other pistol in 45 acp that are rated for regular/continuous use of +P ammo: one being the Ruger American 45.
I happen to have one: what is your opinion as to its suitability for occasional use of the 45 SMC ammo?
Cheers?
Since my sole experience lies with the USP, I couldn't comment on the suitability of other .45 ACP pistols as a host for .45 Super. Because my particular firearm can safely shoot it sans modifications, I've never had to dabble with such things.
The Ruger American looks to be a beefy pistol, and Ruger has a reputation for manufacturing robust firearms, so it's definitely worth looking into, but I wouldn't know personally.
Interesting
I also have a ruger American pistol in .45acp. It takes the recoil of the hotter buffalo bore and Underwood +p rounds really well. So I am also curious as to what would happen with an occasional magazine of .45 super. Not willing to be the Guinea pig myself though. I like my hands to work and look normal
O.K., I will inquire further...
An H&K USP45 is stated to be ready to go. I've read of GLOCKs with 20+ lbs. recoil springs being an acceptable alternative...
There are other pistol in 45 acp that are rated for regular/continuous use of +P ammo: one being the Ruger American 45.
I happen to have one: what is your opinion as to its suitability for occasional use of the 45 SMC ammo?
Cheers?
I also have a ruger American pistol in .45acp. It takes the recoil of the hotter buffalo bore and Underwood +p rounds really well. So I am also curious as to what would happen with an occasional magazine of .45 super. Not willing to be the Guinea pig myself though. I like my hands to work and look normal
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I'd never heard of the .450 SMC until I saw this thread. Sierra's top .45 ACP +P loads with 185 and 230 grain bullets are within 100- 150 fps of the figures depicted on the boxes of ammo in post #12.
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Simple physics also comes into play here.
For every action (increased Muzzle Energy) there is an equal and opposite reaction (felt recoil).
For every action (increased Muzzle Energy) there is an equal and opposite reaction (felt recoil).
I've been shooting stuff that bleeds with 10mm since 1982 when I got my first Bren Ten (actually the first critter I shot with a 10mm was fired from the gun that made the Slick magazines circuit - it was purchased by a friend and it did not have a magazine - I had to cobble one up). That first deer was shot with a hand-load, of a 210 gr. .41 SWC swaged down to .400 and launched at about 1100 fps.
Better loads are available now, but I never noticed the 10mm dropped deer sized animals any quicker than a 230 gr. bullet in .45. In fact, while I didn't shoot it, it failed to drop a 150 lb Wild boar shot perfectly through the shoulder - but I admit that was with a 180 Hydra-shok and that is not exactly a top 10mm load. That bullet did not expand and did not exit, it was found in a roast sometime after the meat got home.
10mm is fine, with the right bullets, it is much better (on game given the same shot placment) than a .357 Magnum - even when fired from 8" barrels - at least it has been for me - but no one shoots enough game to have their opion serve as definitive!
But it doesn't beat standard .45 Auto on ~250-300 lb game, other than perhaps in penetration of large thick sculls of much larger animals.
I have sadly found it will do better than .45 when loaded with 165 or 185 gr. expanding bullets - no matter how fast you push them - at least down to 10 lb critters.
Mind you I have guns in 10mm, .45 ACP, .45 Super, .451 Detonics, .460 Rowland and .45 Win. mag (in autos) - I also developed my own wildcat in 1974 that is basically the same as .451 Detonics and 460 rowland (so I am exceedingly happy I don't have to process .308 brass any more!) - but my loads only pushed a 240 gr TC bullet to 1250 fps - that was more than I needed. I have used all of those on game, but some of them not very much.
As always, one cannot enter the discussion without mentioning placment and adequate penetration. I have found that shooting at a target that is 8" in diamer leaves a lot to chance - personally I strive for a 2" group on the size critters in my area (that usually means I must pass up a shot which I could probably hit the lungs for the safety of breaking bone and hitting the heart/arota).
I don't know if it is of any interest but I also fired the prototype Bren Ten at the 1980 IPSC US Region Nationals - the ammo was a 180 gr. JSP intended for a 38-40 WCF stuck in a cut down .30 Remington case - and pushed to 1100 fps (we didn't have a chrono there so I cant say - I will say that when I got my first lot of Norma 200 gr. JTC - it did go 1204 fps and it kicked a LOT more!
Riposte
Better loads are available now, but I never noticed the 10mm dropped deer sized animals any quicker than a 230 gr. bullet in .45. In fact, while I didn't shoot it, it failed to drop a 150 lb Wild boar shot perfectly through the shoulder - but I admit that was with a 180 Hydra-shok and that is not exactly a top 10mm load. That bullet did not expand and did not exit, it was found in a roast sometime after the meat got home.
10mm is fine, with the right bullets, it is much better (on game given the same shot placment) than a .357 Magnum - even when fired from 8" barrels - at least it has been for me - but no one shoots enough game to have their opion serve as definitive!
But it doesn't beat standard .45 Auto on ~250-300 lb game, other than perhaps in penetration of large thick sculls of much larger animals.
I have sadly found it will do better than .45 when loaded with 165 or 185 gr. expanding bullets - no matter how fast you push them - at least down to 10 lb critters.
Mind you I have guns in 10mm, .45 ACP, .45 Super, .451 Detonics, .460 Rowland and .45 Win. mag (in autos) - I also developed my own wildcat in 1974 that is basically the same as .451 Detonics and 460 rowland (so I am exceedingly happy I don't have to process .308 brass any more!) - but my loads only pushed a 240 gr TC bullet to 1250 fps - that was more than I needed. I have used all of those on game, but some of them not very much.
As always, one cannot enter the discussion without mentioning placment and adequate penetration. I have found that shooting at a target that is 8" in diamer leaves a lot to chance - personally I strive for a 2" group on the size critters in my area (that usually means I must pass up a shot which I could probably hit the lungs for the safety of breaking bone and hitting the heart/arota).
I don't know if it is of any interest but I also fired the prototype Bren Ten at the 1980 IPSC US Region Nationals - the ammo was a 180 gr. JSP intended for a 38-40 WCF stuck in a cut down .30 Remington case - and pushed to 1100 fps (we didn't have a chrono there so I cant say - I will say that when I got my first lot of Norma 200 gr. JTC - it did go 1204 fps and it kicked a LOT more!
Riposte
Way back when I read a few articles about these conversions that also recommended a stronger firing pin spring to prevent possible doubling.
We have a stainless Ruger Officer,
in 45ACP. It has triple recoil springs, and is rated for +P ammo.
Anyone try one with Super or SMC?
I have 100 Starline 45 Super brass cases on hand.
Sadly, no Power Pistol.
Picture has the +P ammo that might be Remington.
in 45ACP. It has triple recoil springs, and is rated for +P ammo.
Anyone try one with Super or SMC?
I have 100 Starline 45 Super brass cases on hand.
Sadly, no Power Pistol.
Picture has the +P ammo that might be Remington.
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You can change 2 things aside from the maker, the caliber or the ammo. Try the ammo first. G9 Defense makes some interesting stuff. So does Underwood.
Always interesting when people re-invent the wheel when it comes to calibers. KISS...........and I am not talking the band
Always interesting when people re-invent the wheel when it comes to calibers. KISS...........and I am not talking the band
drayks
Member
I bought virgin 450 SMC brass from Double Tap and use that small primer stout brass for keeping loads for my PCCs easy to tell apart from my 45 pistol loadings. It helps that the PCCs have a fully supported chamber and can be loaded to higher levels (+P) than pistol, so far has worked great for me. Could not find a source of once-fired 450 SMC brass-anybody have a source?
I remember reading about something simular in the early 90's. Also remember the 400 corbon from around the same time frame. Looked neat but dident really grab me as a i need one.
STORMINORMAN
Member
Hodgdons has 45 Super load data... I've used some START loads in 45 Super brass with quite a few different projectiles in my Ruger American without any problems. Cheers!
P.S. In Starline 45 acp, 45 acp+P & 45 Super brass there is an increasing degree of construction besides different headstamps. 45 SMC uses small rifle primers and is even heavier.
P.S. In Starline 45 acp, 45 acp+P & 45 Super brass there is an increasing degree of construction besides different headstamps. 45 SMC uses small rifle primers and is even heavier.
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