4516-2 decocker only?

[rjm6120]

A nearby pawn shop took in a 4516-2 earlier this week. I went there to take a look at it a couple days ago and passed on it, knowing they don't start allowing themselves to be talked down on the price until they've had it in their case for about 2.5-3 weeks.

Anyway, it's not in bad shape, has several superficial handling marks but nothing at all alarming. Needs a detailed cleaning for sure. Darned solid pistol! The main thing I noticed while checking the functioning was that the slide mounted safety/decocking lever was decocker ONLY, and the little dimple on the frame was not red, but the same color as the rest of the frame.

I could not find any info in the "Bible" 4th ed about these guns being available in decock only. Were some of these guns made this way and if so does this feature affect its value in any way?

The gun comes with 1 mag, no box or anything, and right now is marked $699.

 

[Heymatt]

Not a bad price. Won't last long at that price.

 

[guzzitaco]

hey...if you don't want the decocker...I will be willing to trade it for a regular 45 safety...

 

[rjm6120]

Oh, I definitely don't have a problem with the decocker only. Just didn't know if those guns actually came that way, maybe something the factory changed upon request?

 

[3wire]

I have not heard of the 4516-2 coming with decocker only feature, however, S&W did modify the 4516-2 for certain LEO requirements, of which, a decocker only feature was mandated by some LEO departments, such as the CHP 4006TSW model.

The previous owner could have had this pistol modified to the decocker only feature. This would have required a decocker only safety lever, with decocker only spring assembly and I believe the slide needs to be slightly modified to capture one end of the decocker spring. If the decocker only feature is not wanted, I would imagine you could replace the safety lever with the standard one or possible remove the decocker spring from the existing safety lever to disable this function. The decocker only function would not affect my interest in this pistol, as with all my 3rd gens, I always decock and move the safety lever to off so its ready to be fired DA.

I believe the red paint in the safety dimples comes off periodically due to the age of the paint somehow. My 4516-2 had a portion of the red painted dimple on the left side and no red paint on the righthand side. I just repainted the dimples with a toothpick and red enamel paint for car/airplane models, worked fine.

My 4516-2 was an LEO trade-in that has the double strike capability and the magazine disconnect function, both of which I like. I'm not sure if these two functions are standard on a 4512-2.

I could not comment on the going price for this pistol, however, I know they are getting harder to fine in good condition, but a 4516-2 with only one magazine and assuming no box, my upper limit would be $650, but as with everything, the going price is what one is willing to pay. In my case, I purchased mine on GB in 2020, in good condition, one mag, no box, with shipping I paid around $550, and I thought that was borderline high at the time.

Additional magazines are getting expensive too. I lucked out and purchased 4 used magazines locally for $120. Any of the 4516, 4516-1 or 4516-2 magazines will work in the 4516-2, you just need to replace the mag springs and upgrade to the black mag follower.

Rant on - I've noticed that when most pawn shops acquire an older pistol (not just S&W's) most would come with multiple mags that had been acquired by the previous owner, however, to maximum their profit, they usually sell the pistol with only one mag and sell off the remaining mags individually for big$$.

 

[rjm6120]

I have not heard of the 4516-2 coming with decocker only feature, however, S&W did modify the 4516-2 for certain LEO requirements, of which, a decocker only feature was mandated by some LEO departments, such as the CHP 4006TSW model.

The previous owner could have had this pistol modified to the decocker only feature. This would have required a decocker only safety lever, with decocker only spring assembly and I believe the slide needs to be slightly modified to capture one end of the decocker spring. If the decocker only feature is not wanted, I would imagine you could replace the safety lever with the standard one or possible remove the decocker spring from the existing safety lever to disable this function. The decocker only function would not affect my interest in this pistol, as with all my 3rd gens, I always decock and move the safety lever to off so its ready to be fired DA.

I believe the red paint in the safety dimples comes off periodically due to the age of the paint somehow. My 4516-2 had a portion of the red painted dimple on the left side and no red paint on the righthand side. I just repainted the dimples with a toothpick and red enamel paint for car/airplane models, worked fine.

My 4516-2 was an LEO trade-in that has the double strike capability and the magazine disconnect function, both of which I like. I'm not sure if these two functions are standard on a 4512-2.

I could not comment on the going price for this pistol, however, I know they are getting harder to fine in good condition, but a 4516-2 with only one magazine and assuming no box, my upper limit would be $650, but as with everything, the going price is what one is willing to pay. In my case, I purchased mine on GB in 2020, in good condition, one mag, no box, with shipping I paid around $550, and I thought that was borderline high at the time.

Additional magazines are getting expensive too. I lucked out and purchased 4 used magazines locally for $120. Any of the 4516, 4516-1 or 4516-2 magazines will work in the 4516-2, you just need to replace the mag springs and upgrade to the black mag follower.

Rant on - I've noticed that when most pawn shops acquire an older pistol (not just S&W's) most would come with multiple mags that had been acquired by the previous owner, however, to maximum their profit, they usually sell the pistol with only one mag and sell off the remaining mags individually for big$$.

Thank you for the info, 3wire. I was hoping the factory mod option would be the best explanation. Right now I'm thinking of offering at the most $650 OTD, but they're not going to take this yet after only having it since Tuesday. It has my interest....I'm just going to have to wait and see.

 

[ACEd]

There are multiple examples of 3rd generation pistols other than the CHP 4006TSW with decock only "safety" lever. I have a 4006 Alaska DPS and a 4013 Colorado State Patrol and a 4013TSW unmarked but out of a PD in Alabama or Georgia that are all decock only. I believe the 4566TSW for West Va were decock only. I have also seen several 4013's with slide marking indicating decock only. In my mind it could easily be a factory variant, which would have an odd product number.

It could also be a factory mod - I think I have one that included a factory invoice for under $200 to make the change but I cant remember where I have docs.

Perhaps a question to SW including S/N and request for 6 digit Product Number or any info as to subsequent rework (they will typically have 2 different Ship Dates). Response from SW is highly dependent on who answers - if no joy first time, try again a few days later. Or a question Roy with S/N might shed some light.

But as pointed out it could also be an owner mod - as I recall it requires parts that are available from SW but also requires a modification (hole drilled for spring under safety lever or ??) on some frames. I would do more research on that feature and see if I could see what that looks like. And it requires some effort in timing. Properly done it should work fine, but done by an amateur like me I would not trust.

As to question of double strike capability raised in subsequent posting, I had understood that all of the TDA versions such as the 4516s had double strike capability. It is only unique in the DAO versions such as the 3914DAO.

 

[3wire]

In my earlier post, I mentioned that removing the decocker spring from the decocker only safety body may be an option, but after doing some research into the decocker only feature, I found that removing this spring is not acceptable practice.

BMCM elaborated on this issue in another post:

...."The spring on the decocker in not something that can be taken off and re-installed. The spring is wound onto the part and not removable. The only way to take that spring off is by destroying it.

The manual safety body has a tiny coil spring and detent plunger on the left side that enables a snap action of sorts to retain the thing as desired, either on safe or in the fire position

There is no such facility on the spring loaded decock body. If one removed the special spring from the body, it will just flop around in the gun mostly laying in the safe position simply due to gravity. You'd have to manually hold the thing in the fire position to shoot it."

BMCM knows of what he speaks concerning the S&W 3rd Gens, at least that's what I've learned from following his posts.

 

[Fastbolt]

FWIW, when the spring-loaded/decock-only feature was first introduced, it was a LE-only option (according to what we were told in an armorer class in the later part of the 90's). The M457 was still in testing, so the all-stainless 4516 was still in production.

We were also told that any agencies, or individual officers, who wished to have the decock-only option done to pistols had to send them to the PC, as only the PC was doing the slide machining for the new option at that time. We sent a couple slides to them for the option. As I recall, the cost to individual officers back then was $105, which included machining, the decock-only assembly, fitting a new sear release lever and shipping (since it wasn't a warranty item).

I ordered a decock-only assembly back about '98, as the 3913 I'd ordered from the factory had come with the slide already machined for the option (never got a definitive answer on why it had received the PC machining, though). I think I paid something like $70 for the assembly, as an armorer (we usually got a 26% discount on parts back then).

The decock-only option became available to the general customer base as the full-size TSW's were introduced. The compact TSW's got the slide machining as standard, too. The original non-railed compact TSW's hadn't previously received the machining. Interestingly enough, so did the carbon steel slide of the 4040PD. My early non-railed 4513TSW w/cutaway grip frame hadn't come with the slide machined for the option (nor did it have the loaded chamber inspection port in the barrel tab).

As I recall, it wasn't until after the decock-only feature had been expanded to the commercial market that they decided the 9/.40 slides required the use of the .45 ambi lever for the decock-only conversion. I had to order an extra .45 lever to replace the original ambi lever in my 3913 decock-only.