muzzlestuffer2012
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2022
- Messages
- 349
- Reaction score
- 197
No problem if you dont call the factory ask for bob or johnny they will tell you the same thing !
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
454 Casull
- Thread starter Dfish1247
- Start date
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
muzzlestuffer2012
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2022
- Messages
- 349
- Reaction score
- 197
I read the original post looks like hes referring to a freedom arms 454 and I'm not new to reloading I bought my freedom arms 454 in 1987 that's why I started reloading it was 50 bucks fo 50 rounds back then so I'm very familiar with loading this round I probably have shot 5-6k rounds and had to replace my barrel once.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
BigMuddy
Member
Original post: “Picked up a 7.5” SRH
That ain’t a Freedom Arms. It’s a Ruger Super Redhawk. Yes, FA says not to use 45 Colt brass in 454 cylinders. You need to buy a spare cylinder from them.
Dan
That ain’t a Freedom Arms. It’s a Ruger Super Redhawk. Yes, FA says not to use 45 Colt brass in 454 cylinders. You need to buy a spare cylinder from them.
Dan
Mis-reading happens on occasion to many of us.
Best to read aloud and load at a slow pace to prevent Kabooms and other reloading errors.
Best to read aloud and load at a slow pace to prevent Kabooms and other reloading errors.
muzzlestuffer2012
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2022
- Messages
- 349
- Reaction score
- 197
Didnt catch the srh my bad and apologies with all the chatter about freedom arms I thought he was referring to a freedom gun goes to show us older folk dont know what all these abbreviations stand for !!
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
muzzlestuffer2012
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2022
- Messages
- 349
- Reaction score
- 197
Yes it’s a super red hawk. Freedom Arms is a data source.
Anyway, I loaded 12.8gr unique, 250gr Xtp, cci 400 primer, hornady brass last night. Don’t just copy this recipe, check the books and trusted sources.
Tried it out today and accuracy was ok, no paper, but 12oz can at 50yds every time. So there’s hope, my goal is a golf ball at 50yds every time for a 6”+ long revolver, nothing I have has let me down yet.
Recoil was mild for me, obviously don’t hand it to an inexperienced person, but someone used to magnums can shoot this all day and have fun. Empty cases fell out. And I suspect I had good pressure because I didn’t have the filthy gun unique gives you.
I had two leftover hornady 240gr Xtp mag factory rounds. Those bucked pretty good, and were closer to what I’ve read about 454 recoil. Didn’t come near my face at all, but it twisted in my hands and brought my arms up a little. Those two cases were a little sticky in the cylinder.
So far, I’m digging it. Hope I feel the same once I get to the 300+ grain stuff.
Anyway, I loaded 12.8gr unique, 250gr Xtp, cci 400 primer, hornady brass last night. Don’t just copy this recipe, check the books and trusted sources.
Tried it out today and accuracy was ok, no paper, but 12oz can at 50yds every time. So there’s hope, my goal is a golf ball at 50yds every time for a 6”+ long revolver, nothing I have has let me down yet.
Recoil was mild for me, obviously don’t hand it to an inexperienced person, but someone used to magnums can shoot this all day and have fun. Empty cases fell out. And I suspect I had good pressure because I didn’t have the filthy gun unique gives you.
I had two leftover hornady 240gr Xtp mag factory rounds. Those bucked pretty good, and were closer to what I’ve read about 454 recoil. Didn’t come near my face at all, but it twisted in my hands and brought my arms up a little. Those two cases were a little sticky in the cylinder.
So far, I’m digging it. Hope I feel the same once I get to the 300+ grain stuff.
BigMuddy
Member
muzzlestuffer2012
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2022
- Messages
- 349
- Reaction score
- 197
Sorry again for my misreading but I still stand by my comment I would not shoot 45 colt out of my 454 cylinder no matter what gun it is but do as you wish your gun !!
Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
I done some reading around and I can see what FA is getting at. And I can get behind it.
The crud ring from using shorter brass and that generates higher pressure due to the case mouth can’t expand fully, and cylinder etching from moisture mixed in and under the crud ring making for sticky extraction.
The 454 operates at higher pressure than regular magnums so a multi piece cylinder could be in your future. Just the same as with 357 and 44 going from enough anemic loads in special brass to form a big crud ring to prehistoric class loads in magnum brass.
What I take from that is people in general don’t clean good enough and FA doesn’t want someone injured or worse. And yes, before this is said, they are a business and want you to buy their products, how else do you stay in business.
The crud ring from using shorter brass and that generates higher pressure due to the case mouth can’t expand fully, and cylinder etching from moisture mixed in and under the crud ring making for sticky extraction.
The 454 operates at higher pressure than regular magnums so a multi piece cylinder could be in your future. Just the same as with 357 and 44 going from enough anemic loads in special brass to form a big crud ring to prehistoric class loads in magnum brass.
What I take from that is people in general don’t clean good enough and FA doesn’t want someone injured or worse. And yes, before this is said, they are a business and want you to buy their products, how else do you stay in business.
Loaded a few more this evening.
Can anyone tell me what this “pooch” just below the bullet bulge is? Main reason I’m concerned is this round is a full house 454 round with imr4227 which is compressed. It’s the starting load in the hornady manual with 300gr Xtp mag.
I’m wondering if the powder compressing done this or if the crimp die did? I belled the mouths plenty and bullets went in smoothly and didn’t require any excess force, I used a heavy crimp, but even that was nothing out of the ordinary feeling, no breaking through the jacket, no foot on the handle or something stupid like that either.
The brass was sized before loading, it’s brand new starline brass. It fell in the chamber and fell back out just to see if any issue there.
I’m feeling pulling the bullets, resizing, and going with a moderate load of unique/250gr Xtp to straighten it back out.
Can anyone tell me what this “pooch” just below the bullet bulge is? Main reason I’m concerned is this round is a full house 454 round with imr4227 which is compressed. It’s the starting load in the hornady manual with 300gr Xtp mag.
I’m wondering if the powder compressing done this or if the crimp die did? I belled the mouths plenty and bullets went in smoothly and didn’t require any excess force, I used a heavy crimp, but even that was nothing out of the ordinary feeling, no breaking through the jacket, no foot on the handle or something stupid like that either.
The brass was sized before loading, it’s brand new starline brass. It fell in the chamber and fell back out just to see if any issue there.
I’m feeling pulling the bullets, resizing, and going with a moderate load of unique/250gr Xtp to straighten it back out.
Attachments
STORMINORMAN
Member
1. Shouldn't really need to "BELL the mouths plenty"... You only expand enough to get the bullet started. Jacketed bullets typically don't require a funnel to get started. The more you expand, the more you have to recover with the seating and crimp.
2. The Hornady load data (9th Edition) in 454 Casull for their 300gr. XTP Mag bullet is indeed showing IMR 4227 powder, but doesn't indicate it is compressed. It maxes out at 1500 fps. Not absolutely a "full house" load (see below) when 296 takes it to 1650 fps, which is 10% more.
3. The HODGDONS (powder manufacturer's) load data for 454 Casull does not list ANY loads for IMR 4227 with a 300gr XTP bullet. There is load data for a different 300gr bullet, but it is for H(odgdon)4227 powder. It shows a COMPRESSED 31.0gr load, but it is their MAX, not their STARTING load, and at 1700+ fps. No load data for IMR 4227 at all for any bullet weights. None.
Different bullet and different powder. Could be a recipe for disaster.
Please reconsider and review your loading process and load data, for your own sake!
2. The Hornady load data (9th Edition) in 454 Casull for their 300gr. XTP Mag bullet is indeed showing IMR 4227 powder, but doesn't indicate it is compressed. It maxes out at 1500 fps. Not absolutely a "full house" load (see below) when 296 takes it to 1650 fps, which is 10% more.
3. The HODGDONS (powder manufacturer's) load data for 454 Casull does not list ANY loads for IMR 4227 with a 300gr XTP bullet. There is load data for a different 300gr bullet, but it is for H(odgdon)4227 powder. It shows a COMPRESSED 31.0gr load, but it is their MAX, not their STARTING load, and at 1700+ fps. No load data for IMR 4227 at all for any bullet weights. None.
Different bullet and different powder. Could be a recipe for disaster.
Please reconsider and review your loading process and load data, for your own sake!
muzzlestuffer2012
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2022
- Messages
- 349
- Reaction score
- 197
I'm assuming the bulge is from the crimp stage do you seat and crimp separately? So if the case bulges when crimping back off your crimp die also your cases have to be trimmed to length exactly the same !
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
muzzlestuffer2012
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2022
- Messages
- 349
- Reaction score
- 197
You can shoot a bulged case if it chambers wont hurt anything and it will remove bulge upon firing if you pull bullets and resize you'll have to remove primer decapping pin from die
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
If it chambers, shoot it. Seat and crimp in separate operations. If already seating/crimping separately, seat the bullet to top of cannelure and back off crimp a bit.
Had the same thing happen with 300gr Nosler Partitions and i was seating/crimping in separate operations. Had to back off crimp die a bit to solve problem. My gun is a FA so less forgiving with out of spec ammo.
Good luck
Paul
Had the same thing happen with 300gr Nosler Partitions and i was seating/crimping in separate operations. Had to back off crimp die a bit to solve problem. My gun is a FA so less forgiving with out of spec ammo.
Good luck
Paul
I seat and crimp separate.
I can’t get the bullet low enough with the compressed charge to crimp right at the top. Best I can get is 1/2-3/4 up the groove. The crimps are uniform and a case with no bullet just folds the mouth over as it should.
All cases chambered without issue.
I’ll back off the crimp some and see what happens.
I can’t get the bullet low enough with the compressed charge to crimp right at the top. Best I can get is 1/2-3/4 up the groove. The crimps are uniform and a case with no bullet just folds the mouth over as it should.
All cases chambered without issue.
I’ll back off the crimp some and see what happens.
Matter of fact, I’m just going to pull the rest and try 296 and 2400, see how they fit. Something just isn’t sitting right about this being compressed at the starting load and not being noted. My Lyman 50th shows 27.5gr as a start, but that’ll be compressed a bunch as well.
Just for grins, I have 20 pieces of hornady brass from the factory ammo I had, once fired, 28.2gr in those was just as bad.
I’ve loaded 4227 in 357,41,44 and 460 mag. Only the 90% up charges were compressed no matter the bullet. It’s my most accurate “magnum” powder in 41,44, and 460.
I’ve read several times that 4227 is a powder you’ll have trouble stuffing enough in the case to have pressure problems, not something I ever tried to find out or wanted to find out.
Just for grins, I have 20 pieces of hornady brass from the factory ammo I had, once fired, 28.2gr in those was just as bad.
I’ve loaded 4227 in 357,41,44 and 460 mag. Only the 90% up charges were compressed no matter the bullet. It’s my most accurate “magnum” powder in 41,44, and 460.
I’ve read several times that 4227 is a powder you’ll have trouble stuffing enough in the case to have pressure problems, not something I ever tried to find out or wanted to find out.
muzzlestuffer2012
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2022
- Messages
- 349
- Reaction score
- 197
Nothing wrong with a compressed load your not getting the bulge from seating ? Only at crimp stage ?
Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
Last edited:
So, you are saying the gunsmith at ruger will contradict the markings on their gun barrel and the manual for the SRH. How did these guns ever get passed the lawyers and on the market if the info is wrong? They had better release a recall to remove 45 colt from the barrels asap.
I have shot both 45 colt brass and 454 in my puma 454 rifle and taurus raging bull for years. I clean my guns after every session and have never seen the crud ring folks speak of. Keep your guns clean!
Rosewood
Rosewood
