454 Casull

Again: these are two DIFFERENT POWDERS.

H4227 & IMR 4227. They are similar. But...

They ARE NOT IDENTICAL. The load data is NOT IDENTICAL for these two powders.
 
So, you are saying the gunsmith at ruger will contradict the markings on their gun barrel and the manual for the SRH. How did these guns ever get passed the lawyers and on the market if the info is wrong? They had better release a recall to remove 45 colt from the barrels asap.
No I thought he was referring to a freedom arms revolver my bad !!

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To drift only slighty, and since it was mentioned in this thread, how can one tell if his super redhawk is showing signs of forcing cone erosion or wear? Is this something to be concerned about at 1k rounds or 10k rounds? I shoot only cast performance bullets, 265 grain to 335 grain. I've found that shooting the casull relieves the arthritis in my hands and wrists a little.

I use a 460 brass slightly belled and "sharpened" as a crud scraper after shooting 45lc.

Looking forward to the NEO Bunch meeting this morning. Been a couple years since I've attended.

Dave
 
Again: these are two DIFFERENT POWDERS.

H4227 & IMR 4227. They are similar. But...

They ARE NOT IDENTICAL. The load data is NOT IDENTICAL for these two powders.

They are now per hodgdon. Haven't always been. I thought they had discontinued one of the names after they combined them.
 
Interestingly the website makes no mention of H4227 on the PRODUCTS side, but lists it as a reloading powder with load data separate from IMR 4227 in RELOADING DATA...?
 
What are we left to conclude?

Again: these are two DIFFERENT POWDERS.

H4227 & IMR 4227. They are similar. But...

They ARE NOT IDENTICAL. The load data is NOT IDENTICAL for these two powders.

Back in Sept-2014 I emailed Hodgdon this very question, are they the same powder, as only IMR 4227 was available for purchase but they mainly only showed H4227 load data on their website.

They replied:

"They are not exactly the same but you can use the same loading data using the starting load and working your way up watching for pressure signs."

Okay, but I had found this & replied to them:

"I got to looking around at your data & while you say they are not the same can you explain why some of your online reloading data shows it is exactly the same?
[357Mag (125gr & 158gr HDY XTP) & 44Mag (240gr Nos JHP -see attached-) in the rifle section]
"

They never replied back. :(

Haven't looked any since but I see that load data is still being listed. ;)

.



.
 
To drift only slighty, and since it was mentioned in this thread, how can one tell if his super redhawk is showing signs of forcing cone erosion or wear? Is this something to be concerned about at 1k rounds or 10k rounds? I shoot only cast performance bullets, 265 grain to 335 grain. I've found that shooting the casull relieves the arthritis in my hands and wrists a little.



I use a 460 brass slightly belled and "sharpened" as a crud scraper after shooting 45lc.



Looking forward to the NEO Bunch meeting this morning. Been a couple years since I've attended.



Dave
The forcing cone will show a wrinkled appearance I guess if I had to describe it. the round count depends on the loads and the burn rates of the powders you use also cutting is also indication of using certain powders as well as cylinder gap

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I can shed a little light . My Late #1 Shooting & Handloading Partner had a tripple cylinder FA (.454, .45 Colt, .45acp ) .

Freedom Arms has extra tight chambers . .45 Colt in middle to upper end of allowable spec frequently won't chamber in FA .454 chambers . FA .45 Colt chambers are a hair larger diameter .

**********************

Way , way back in the day , IMR was the only 4227 . When WWII surplus stocks ran out , Hogdon made H4227 just a hair slower than IMR4227 , so than anyone directly using historical load data would be safe , and a hair Lower in pressure .

At some point after Hogdon took over both brands , they used the exact same powder in both . More recently , they now only market it under one brand name .

I Like 4227 . It is part of my default Big Bore Loading .

Cast bullet of standard for caliber weight .

90% load density * for that exact bullet , seated to crimp groove . It can vary with bullets of same nominal weight .

WLP primer .

Velocity will be about 75- 80% of the powders giving highest velocities in that caliber .

The Worst accuracy I've ever gotten with that formula is 1.25in @ 25 yds .
 
Why because I personally know the head gunsmith there for about 25 or so years and that's what he says call the factory if you don't believe me ?

I have no info about whether or not the factory will invalidate warranties or not. I just don't know and do not wish to get into the middle of that.

I do know why the manufacturer does not want us using .45 LC in a .454 cylinder. It is due to the crud buildup that happens at the end of the case when you shoot a shorter case in a longer cylinder. Even if religiously cleaned out, over time, this action can alter the near perfection of that area of the cylinder. This situation constricts the actual diameter of that cylinder in that spot. That spot is in the general area of where you would expect most .454 rounds to be crimped. This could affect the pressure needed to release the crimp. That could create an unpredictable pressure situation in a round that routinely operates in a pretty scary pressure situation.

Again I don't know how far they are willing to go to enforce this. I do know that they seriously do not want you to do it.
 
Figured I’d update after a few months. The srh has a 2x7 Burris now and hogue rubber grip.

13.4gr unique, cci 400, and 250gr Xtp hits golf balls at 100yds. Granted, it’s all over the ball, but I’m happy with that. Recoil is upper end of mild if that makes sense, unless your eat up with arthritis, you could go all day. Real fun plinker.

This part wasn’t much fun, 300gr mag, win 296, and cci 450. Hits golf ball at 100yds 5 out of 6 shots, best I’d found so far. This one hurts, even freehanded, it twists in your hand more than it comes back at you. The fireball and muzzle blast are real showstoppers, and the fact a 7.5” revolver is golf balling at 100yds gets attention. I’ll call this my hunting load. Not that I’ll ever use it for that.

I used a lot of benchrest principles to achieve these results. Weighing everything, brass thickness,etc. And matching components, it was time consuming and reminded me why I hated benchrest competition, wasn’t as much fun.

Now, either load just grabbing brass and bullets from the box doesn’t perform quite as well, their soda can guarantee, not as accurate, but definitely very fun, well except 296, lol.
 
Picked up a 7.5” srh yesterday, couldn’t pass it up.

Anyway, I have 20 pieces of once fired hornady brass. Have 500 starlines ordered.

I’m looking for a 1200-1400fps load to use up the 250gr xtps I have. I have 300gr mags for use in heavy duty 454 and 460 loads. Once the xtps are gone, I’m going to try 300+ grain gc hard cast for this velocity range.

I’ve scoured and other than Freedom Arms data, not much in the way of data. I’m thinking unique, hp38, and maybe cfe pistol. I have bullseye as well, but I’m not willing to risk it. And 2400 downloaded is just filthy, not a fan.

Anyway, does 11-14gr unique, 11-13.2gr hp38 sound unreasonable? This is in Casull brass, don’t have 45 colt brass.

Since you asked about Unique I would say you are a little low on your charge range. I think 14.0gr to 15.0gr Unique will get you where you want to be. Check the velocities as you work up and find the most accurate load in the range and you are done...

You can use Unique, HS6 and Longshot since there is data available but I'm sure Universal, True Blue, Power Pistol, AA#7 and a few others will work fine if you can find safe data.
 
Sorry again for my misreading but I still stand by my comment I would not shoot 45 colt out of my 454 cylinder no matter what gun it is but do as you wish your gun !!

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I will assume you don't shoot 38 Special out of a 357 Magnum gun or 44 Special out of a 44 Magnum gun either then.
 
Or just load the special load in magnum brass and be done. Or even better, clean the stinking firearm when you get home.

Anyway, I tried to go today. Rifle season is just around the corner, every yahoo with their 300 magnum was there “making sure it’s still sighted in.” At 100yds to boot. My neck of the woods, 60yds is a long shot, there ain’t many cow fields left. I could barely get one cylinder done before someone needed to check their target, and these jokers had scopes you could see a hair on a nat’s butt on Pluto, they didn’t need to get up.

Then, after the 6 millionth target check, three dudes stand around and shoot the **** forever. Only rough instance, I’d asked politely a couple times if everyone was ready and a couple of the waste chutes said “we’re talking, hold your horses”, I said “ this is a gun range, not a shoot the $#@& range, so shut the up and put your ear plugs in,” a few other folks agreed with me, no more trouble with the motor mouths.

I know, I know, quit whining, it’s part of it. The bros doing a mag dump is less obnoxious to me than all the Bill Jordan’s. Steady steam of trucks pulling in, 10-15 shots, then leave.

I figured some of you may get a kick out this, why it’s here.

I just shot at 75yds because the 100yd pile was littered with paper targets. The 454 done great, I tried 14gr unique, I’d miss the golf ball fairly often, the 13.4gr never missed. I also took a kimber model 82, you have to try and miss with it,lol.
 
First thing that I noticed that there was a lot of "Can" above the crimped brass.
You might need to seat the bullet a little deeper for the crimp to hit the center of the "Can"?

Seating that heavy bullet "Deep" into your case, might be making it hit the
thicker part of the case wall, creating a bulge or
you may be seating too fast or starting the bullet off center ?

You might also need a larger expander, to help prevent the case bulge?

Same thing happens when I used to load my 357 with the old Speer 160 gr JSP .

If it chambers, you just have to live with the "Ugly" ammo, if you can't figure out the problem.
 
No, I don't belive you. I have the exact Ruger Super Redhawk that the OP has. Ruger's manual for the SRH explicitly says you can shoot 45 Colt in it. Try reading it. The cylinder for the SRH 454 is made from Carpeter Steel and proof tested to 92,000 psi without a scratch on it. No way a 45 colt would put a dent in that. I have no idea what other manufacturers say, but we are not talking about other manufacturers, we are talking about a Ruger SRH 454. Remember, reading is fundamental. I hate it when people push false info out, especially to those who are new to reloading.
New to reloading ? Iv'e been reloading for about 30 years is that new ? Pressures have nothing to do with what i said about shooting 45 colt in a 454 cylinder is has to do with erosion of the cylinders since iv'e had my freedom arms since the 90's and have had many conversations with the factory i have been told that firing 45 colt extensively in a 454 cylinder will void the warranty.
 
I will assume you don't shoot 38 Special out of a 357 Magnum gun or 44 Special out of a 44 Magnum gun either then.

well i have my first 629 44 mag a few months ago and have not shot it yet but have no plans on shooting 44 special out of it i would just buy a 44 special if i want to shoot that round. same for the 357 i bought a colt python 357 but have no plans on shooting 38 special out of it. I am trying to locate a freedom arms 44 mag and if i get one i will send it back to the factory and have a new cylinder made for it and that one would be for 44 special only iv'e been told that the guys that want to shoot 44 special out of their freedom arms revolvers order a extra cylinder and usually have it fluted so they can quickly distinguish between the two cylinders. Bob Baker refuses to offer a 44 special cylinder for some strange reason. I personally think that shooting shorter cases does erode your cylinder if you do it often enough. i'm not trying to get into a pissing match with anyone just pointing out what i believe to be the facts as iv'e been told.
MS
 
I guess there's always the option of using the non-Magnum load data in magnum cases, all the while watching for the dreaded underpowdered squib...:eek:

As if a bullet is likely to stick at 1100 fps, or so...?:rolleyes:

The info in this thread re: the 4227s is much appreciated!

Cheers!

P.S. I regularly shoot 44 Specials from my SBH Hunter, but they are more fun out of the CA Bulldog On Duty! I also clean the front of the cylinder regularly as well, but have not noticed any real crud ring build up.

Cleanliness is next to Godliness, as my sainted Irish Grandmother used to say!
 
Loaded a few more this evening.

Can anyone tell me what this “pooch” just below the bullet bulge is? Main reason I’m concerned is this round is a full house 454 round with imr4227 which is compressed. It’s the starting load in the hornady manual with 300gr Xtp mag.

I’m wondering if the powder compressing done this or if the crimp die did? I belled the mouths plenty and bullets went in smoothly and didn’t require any excess force, I used a heavy crimp, but even that was nothing out of the ordinary feeling, no breaking through the jacket, no foot on the handle or something stupid like that either.

The brass was sized before loading, it’s brand new starline brass. It fell in the chamber and fell back out just to see if any issue there.

I’m feeling pulling the bullets, resizing, and going with a moderate load of unique/250gr Xtp to straighten it back out.

It takes MORE than a compressed powder charge
to "Dent" a pistol case !!

( unless the case was defective )
 
Yeah about that, I had the crimp die down too far, whoops.

Unique and an Xtp took care of it, lol.
 

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