455 2nd model

[steelslaver]

Just got picked this one up from the FFL after winning it on Gunbroker.

Surprisingly good shape for a 100 year old military gun.

White paint in cross pennants and other markings on left side.

Small dings here and there but overall pretty nice. Bore is mirror and recoil shield rest of gun show very little use. Chambers are perfect and still in 455 chambering. Has H OLIVER SEAL nicely stamped on bottom of right stock. Net search revels nothing on such a person.

Need to get a shell holder and some 455 brass I guess. My 455 triple lock has been reamed and recessed for 45 colt, but should still fire the 455 also.

 

[DWalt]

"My 455 triple lock has been reamed and recessed for 45 colt, but should still fire the 455 also."

Yes, assuming the .45 Colt conversion has been done correctly, with a slight chamber recess for the .45 Colt rims. I am one who believes that a properly done .45 Colt conversion of a .455 shouldn't be considered a major fault, at least for someone who wishes to shoot it. Just like a .357 conversion of a .38/44 HD or Outdoorsman. I wouldn't do either conversion myself, but for a revolver which was converted long ago, I don't consider it a catastrophe.

 

[Absalom]

...
White paint in cross pennants and other markings on left side.

......

I recommend straight acetone and a brush ...

Seriously, I asked Richard Milner at the Webley Research Service in Britain about this, and he told me any white paint in British military markings is post-service applied and unhistoric, and can safely be removed.

 

[steelslaver]

Another thing I wonder about on this one is the seller was in Alaska. Have to wonder how it got there. Possibly it was in Canada as no Not British made stamped on it anywhere. and only marks other than the cross pennants and in and out arrows are cross pennants on back of cylinder and some kind of proofs by top of hump on left side. My 455 triplelock has Not British made and all kinds of stamping all over it and every chamber is proof marked. The British were very proud of their ability to make and use stamps. LOL

 

[Hondo44]

LOL, yes they were!

That's a spectacular 455 example! As original as they come and nicer condition than 98% of those that turn up.

No refinish, not monkeyed with, and the sideplate screws look un-turned since leaving Springfield.

Brass: 45 Webley∗ .820" long - Buffalo Arms

455 Mk II case length; .820"

 

[steelslaver]

Jim, I will post serial number in the research thread. Thanks for the heads up on the brass. I ordered 100 rds of brass. Had already found and ordered a shell holder. I have a spare set of colt dies I should be able to modify to work on the brass. That should be enough to satisfy my curiosity. Not planning on firing it much.

 

[Jack Flash]

That's a very nice one indeed. I can't make out the column of markings near the hump, but they are always acceptance and ownership markings along these lines:
Broad Arrow ... Accepted into British Military Service
Crown / F 7 / E ... Inspected and accepted into service at the Royal Small Arms Factory in Enfield, by Inspector F 7 (or whatever letter / number is on yours)
II ... This was the Mark II (second version) of the S&W .455, the first being the renowned "Triple Lock"

Of course, the crossed pennants are a proof mark. The point to point Broad Arrows show it was sold out of service on the civilian market. Yours also has the ".455" designation. Many did not have this since it would be assumed it fired the service round.

.455 Mark II brass is 0.77 " in length. I usually think of Mark I as being 0.88" but I have seen shorter lengths listed. These were chambered to fire the longer Mk I round and of course can fire the shorter Mk II as well.

Amazing that the chambers and (I hope!) bore are in such good condition. The WWI .455 Marks I & II were corrosive and erosive as hell.

 

[Hondo44]

Jim, I will post serial number in the research thread. Thanks for the heads up on the brass. I ordered 100 rds of brass. Had already found and ordered a shell holder. I have a spare set of colt dies I should be able to modify to work on the brass. That should be enough to satisfy my curiosity. Not planning on firing it much.

Did you find a specific shellholder listed for the 455 rim?

The charts I have for Lyman and RCBS didn't list it but Lee did. It was their #5, the same # listed for several magnum rifle cartridges including 7MM which is an RCBS #4 and a Lyman #13.

 

[deadin]

Jack,
The "point to point" mark means it was sold out of service, not necessarily to the civilian market. It was bought from stores by an officer that were required to provide their own side arms. If it was later sold via a commercial shop it would have to have been commercially proofed and that is where all of the various stampings come from.
(The ones on each chamber, the barrel and the "Not English Made" mark.)

 

[Hondo44]

.455 Mark II brass is 0.77 " in length. I usually think of Mark I as being 0.88" but I have seen shorter lengths listed. These were chambered to fire the longer Mk I round and of course can fire the shorter Mk II as well.

Amazing that the chambers and (I hope!) bore are in such good condition. The WWI .455 Marks I & II were corrosive and erosive as hell.

Thanks for sharing those measurements.

Brands can make a difference and Cartridges in my collection measure as follows:

Military 455 Mk VI .747"
REM UMC Mk II - 45 Webley .820"
Dominion 455 Colt (Mk I) .877"
WRA 455 Colt (Mk I) .880"

 

[S&WsRsweet]

Nice gun very nice indeed .

 

[steelslaver]

RCBS is supposed to be #38 and Lee a #5 from what I have found. Don't want to mess any of the brass up at $0.60 a piece for a lot of 100. I have a Lee mold that throws round nose 220 grain .456 bullets for my Ruger Old Army and will use those. I use those bullets in my triple lock as some of my 45 colt 255gr SWC rounds are pretty warm and I wouldn't want any of them ending up in the triple lock.

I label my reloads, but use bullet shape and type as a method to keep track of them. I use round nose or wad cutters for mild stuff only.

I was lucky on my 44 Russian and found a box of loaded ammo for $30 and it came with a box off cut down 44 special brass.

 

[glowe]

The design of the 455 bullet is quite different than any standard 45 Colt bullets. I have shot RN, RNFP, WC, etc. with decent results, but none of my 455s are anything to write home about.

I bought an RCBS mold that duplicates the original heavy lead bullet of the original British rounds and they actually shoot better than all the others. Maybe the heavy bullet makes a difference, maybe the skirted bullet helps with spin and stabilizes the bullet better. Original bullets were 265 grain, hollow base pointed design and you cannot duplicate them without the 455 mold. The RCBS mold is pricey and somewhat hard to find, but I will never wear it out in my lifetime.

 

[steelslaver]

Thanks for that information, but I am not to concerned about getting top accuracy of even firing this gun a bunch. Like my triple lock, 44 Russian and a few other early guns I might take them to the range maybe once a year and shoot them just for a their history.

If I want accuracy for something I have plenty of quality more modern adj sight guns. My S&W 45 colt guns are very accurate and produce much more energy.

 

[Muley Gil]

I used to have a .455 2nd model that had been re-chambered to .45 Colt. I loaded .452 sized Keith semi wadcutters over 7.5 grs of Unique. I had to deep seat them and crimp over the front of the front band to fit that short cylinder.

It would group right at 3" at 25 yards.

 

[Jack Flash]

.455 Mark II brass is 0.77 " in length. I usually think of Mark I as being 0.88" but I have seen shorter lengths listed. These were chambered to fire the longer Mk I round and of course can fire the shorter Mk II as well.

Amazing that the chambers and (I hope!) bore are in such good condition. The WWI .455 Marks I & II were corrosive and erosive as hell.

Thanks for sharing those measurements.

Brands can make a difference and Cartridges in my collection measure as follows:

Military 455 Mk VI .747"
REM UMC Mk II - 45 Webley .820"
Dominion 455 Colt (Mk I) .877"
WRA 455 Colt (Mk I) .880"

You're very welcome. The Mk I measurements you list align with the cases I have encountered. The REM UMC Mk II case is surprisingly long.

I didn't have time today to dig through my references to find where I got my Mk I & Mk II lengths, but I did look up an article about the evolution of the .455 family of revolver cartridges (see below). The author of this informative piece lists the case lengths as
Mk I ... 0.855"
Mk II ... 0.760"
He lists several references so I assume he got these case lengths from those and / or his own personal measurements.

Those Confusing .455s - International Ammunition Association

 

[DWalt]

You're very welcome. The Mk I measurements you list align with the cases I have encountered. The REM UMC Mk II case is surprisingly long.

I didn't have time today to dig through my references to find where I got my Mk I & Mk II lengths, but I did look up an article about the evolution of the .455 family of revolver cartridges (see below). The author of this informative piece lists the case lengths as
Mk I ... 0.855"
Mk II ... 0.760"
He lists several references so I assume he got these case lengths from those and / or his own personal measurements.

Those Confusing .455s - International Ammunition Association

Chris Punnett is probably the most authoritative source in the world regarding British military small arms cartridges. And also the .30-'06 cartridge. He is a Canadian.