.455 HE MKII 2nd Model With a twist!! Have a few questions??

[THREEDFLYER]

Hello all......yet another classic S&W found it's way back to the man cave this afternoon. Well, I guess it's better than spending the money at the casino!

Here is a .455 HE MKII loaded with British proofs and fitted with a set of Ivory S&W Medallion Stocks.

This one was re-chambered and is now in .45 AR and has been properly marked as such. Obviously done post war. The barrel measures approx. 6.5". The finish appears original, all marking are crisp/clear. Would I be correct to assume that the conversion was done prior to the gun returning to the US??

The serial number is 62357 and matches on the butt and bottom of barrel, but no S/N is visible on the cylinder due to being milled during the conversion.

I will post several photos of the proofs and stocks.
You will notice the right stock has checkering and the left is smooth.
The seller assumed this was intentional, but am curious what you guys think?
Anyone else encountered a set like this?

Thoughts/comments are welcome.

Tom

 

[THREEDFLYER]

Proof markings

Some more photos....

 

[THREEDFLYER]

And some more.....

A few more....

 

[larry21556]

I am thinking they are a mixed pair as the left one seems to sit prouder of the frame than the right and has a different tone, but they have both been around a long time.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

True, the color is a bit different, however I have two other S&W's with ivory stocks and each of those varies in color from the others.
Not sure how common ivory stocks would be on a .455 HE or 1917 of this vintage?

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

I am pretty sure the Ivories are not Factory.

 

[JSR III]

I would have to agree that they are a mis match. I can't fathom any reason to have a gun with one smooth stock and one checked. The scary part is the photo showing the bottom of the two stocks. In that photo the age cracks appear to be very similar but that may just be a coincidence.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

I would have to agree that they are a mis match. I can't fathom any reason to have a gun with one smooth stock and one checked. The scary part is the photo showing the bottom of the two stocks. In that photo the age cracks appear to be very similar but that may just be a coincidence.

Here are a few more photos of the stocks.....

 

[THREEDFLYER]

I am pretty sure the Ivories are not Factory.

I realize the gun was not shipped from the factory with the ivories, but the stocks have the S&W Medallions which I assume are authentic S&W.
But I am no expert. The right stock, which is checkered, has an extremely worn medallion as you can see.

If one of the two stocks were damaged and replaced, I can't imagine that logo S&W Ivories were that readily available.....?????

 

[beagleye]

I think they are a matched pair, but one appears to have been modified.

Question is, why didn't he finish the job? Blinded by mustard gas maybe?

 

[Hondo44]

Threedflyer,

Well you have another fun gun there. I'll suggest the re-chambering was done after returning to the states simply because I have to ask, why would an Englishman chamber it to a cartridge not readily available 'over there'?

The ivory grips are nice but a mystery. And I've never seen ivory hollowed out on the back like that.

 

[Muley Gil]

Threedflyer,

Well you have another fun gun there. I'll suggest the re-chambering was done after returning to the states simply because I have to ask, why would an Englishman chamber it to a cartridge not readily available 'over there'?

The ivory grips are nice but a mystery. And I've never seen ivory hollowed out on the back like that.

I agree with Jim about the rechambering. .455 was common in England, but not in the US, except fror those areas that border Canada.

.45 Auto Rim was introduced by Remington post WW I for those shooters that didn't like the three round half moon clips.

 

[murphydog]

Both stock panels appear to be the same vintage (at least by appearance); no good explanation for one being checkered and one smooth. The overall style (small silver medallion, rounded tops, and checkering pattern) is similar to a 1930 decade wood service stock, so they may not be contemporary to the age of the gun.

 

[PJGP]

The Birmingham commercial proof coded date stamp in Post #2 photo 4 shows that it was done in 1951. Given the way that the calibre stamp was altered, and the adjacent location of the proof stamps, my feeling is that the conversion may well have been done in England.

Peter

 

[glowe]

. . . The overall style (small silver medallion, rounded tops, and checkering pattern) is similar to a 1930 decade . . .

That type medallion would not have even been designed or available from the factory around in WWI era. The medallion of the time would have been large brass with gold wash applied. The right stock medallion does not even look centered, but that may be the angle the picture was taken. Lastly, one medallion looks to be all silver and well worn, while the other one looks to have brass base metal, but again it may be the lighting playing tricks.

I will also mention the the finish looks very dull. Guns of that era were dark blue/black with very smooth metal prep done. I am wondering if it is possible that yours had a slightly roughened finish and was redone in a dull lightly parkerized style finish when rechambered, along with the stocks added - maybe in the 1930s??? The pictures of one of mine shows a comparison finish from a gun that Supica sold me with, what he confirmed as original finish.

Yours is still a great gun that will be a hoot to shoot! Keep the AR ammo light and the revolver will last forever.

 

[deadin]

why would an Englishman chamber it to a cartridge not readily available 'over there'?

For the same reason a lot of Lend-lease 38/200's were bored out to 38 Special after WW2. (For export to the U.S.)

 

[H Richard]

The .455 2nd models have been done in a variety of different configurations. I found this one in the Denver area last year, and it is all original and number matching "except" it is sleeved for 38 Special. When I saw it in the case at Cabelas I was amazed at the condition, then I noticed the front sight. Shortened to regulate the POI. There are no import markings, and no British markings on it other than the original marks. I'm guessing it was brought back and modified here in the US.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

For the same reason a lot of Lend-lease 38/200's were bored out to 38 Special after WW2. (For export to the U.S.)

The Standard Catalog 3rd Edition on page 167 state that many of the MKII's were converted to 45 Colt and 45 Auto Rim by S&W or other gunsmiths with the new caliber marking stamped over the old.

I don't see mention of of them being converted by the British prior to being sent home, but I suppose that is possible.

Also, the cylinder face has be finished after it was cut down and the ejector star is thinner as it would have to be.

I agree, this gun has be refinished and possibly bead blasted then parkerized. I compared it to my original finish US M1917 and there is no comparison in finish. Still, this gun has no major finish issues and will certainly be a wonderful shooter and piece of history.

There is the common "NOT ENGLISH MADE" stamped in small letters on the left lower side of the frame.

Tom

 

[Jebus35745]

Hi Tom, that gun is nicer then what you described on the phone last nite. Nice catch. Will be very interesting to see how good it shoots! Larry

 

[Russell Cottle]

Nice one, congrats. Checkering the 'palm side' grip panel was supposed to give you better control.....