455 HE Question

[45NUTT]

Enlighten me regarding the HE in 455 Eley shoots. If the chambers have been left unmolested it will shoot only the 455, correct. If they have been reamed, it will shoot 45 Colt and 455? Or would it be 45ACP and 455?

 

[desi2358]

An unaltered 455 will shoot only 455 ammo, either the early long black powder era case or the later smokeless 455 MKII shorter case. If the chambers were reamed to 45 Colt it would also need to be counterbored for the slightly thicker Colt rim and would still also work with the 455 ammo. Some people shaved the breech face instead which makes headspace excessive for the 455 rounds. The 45ACP will only work in guns that have had the rear face of the cylinder shaved to make room for the required moon clips for that round (45ACP will simply fall into the chambers as there is no shoulder for it to headspace on).

38/200 is a term often used for the British 380 MKI cartridge which originally used a 200 gr. bullet similar to the US 200 gr. Super Police loading of the 38 S&W cartridge. The British Service Revolvers that S&W made were chambered for the British service round though by WWII the issue round was the MKII version with a 178 gr. FMJ bullet. They would still work with stocks of the older load of course.

 

[gwpercle]

The "shaved" cylinder is a dead give away that it has been converted to 45 acp with "moon clips" ... If this has been done , like so many were , you can also use 45 Auto-Rim ... a thick rimmed 45 acp case invented to do away with moon clips .If yours is still 455 Eley ... don't convert it !
They are more valuable in original 455 ...
Gary

 

[22hipower]

Depends how the modification was done, there are several posts here about the details. The one below was modified for 45 Colt as explained above. I haven't shot it with .455 but 45 Colt works fine.

Assuming we're talking about the MKIIs, even if modified for 45 ACP I would avoid using it as those MKIIs were not built for a diet of the higher pressure 45 ACP.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

https://flic.kr/p/2pyHXhC https://www.flickr.com/photos/194934231@N03/

 

[45NUTT]

The "shaved" cylinder is a dead give away that it has been converted to 45 acp with "moon clips" ... If this has been done , like so many were , you can also use 45 Auto-Rim ... a thick rimmed 45 acp case invented to do away with moon clips .If yours is still 455 Eley ... don't convert it !
They are more valuable in original 455 ...
Gary

I was just noodling around on GB and adding some HE's to my watchlist. I would like to add a bigger caliber to my stable and the 44's are a little pricey! But, the 455's & 1917's are a little more reasonable.

 

[470Evans]

I was just noodling around on GB and adding some HE's to my watchlist. I would like to add a bigger caliber to my stable and the 44's are a little pricey! But, the 455's & 1917's are a little more reasonable.

Not only are the 455s more reasonable they make great shooting guns.

 

[mrcvs]

The "shaved" cylinder is a dead give away that it has been converted to 45 acp with "moon clips" ... If this has been done , like so many were , you can also use 45 Auto-Rim ... a thick rimmed 45 acp case invented to do away with moon clips .If yours is still 455 Eley ... don't convert it !
They are more valuable in original 455 ...
Gary

You CAN use .45 ACP in a modified .455 Webley revolver, but you really SHOULDN’T. Too much pressure, too much risk…

 

[Model19man]

Enlighten me regarding the HE in 455 Eley shoots. If the chambers have been left unmolested it will shoot only the 455, correct. If they have been reamed, it will shoot 45 Colt and 455? Or would it be 45ACP and 455?

The thing is, any of the British cartridges with the first three numbers of ".45" will work because they all use the same rim size, same diameter of the brass cartridge, and the same bullet diameter. Only the length of the brass case differs. If you get .450" Adams (Eley etc,) then the ammo will work. The Brits had anemic rounds in most cases - 45 ACP is a round that many revolvers were modified for that is way more powerful than the original stuff.

.455 Webley - Wikipedia
.450 Adams - Wikipedia

 

[glowe]

You need to consider ammunition availability before buying. 455 is not an easy caliber to purchase. Fiocchi made some in this century, but getting hard to find. Prices are over $1.00 a round, so reloading is a very attractive option. Brass and reloading dies seem to be available right now, but do come and go. Obviously, that is why so many guns were converted in the past.

 

[470Evans]

If you want to get serious about shooting 455 I would recommend searching for Dominion 455 ammo/brass.

There are two lengths of 455 brass, the MkI and the MkII. Both will shoot in any 455 Eley chamber as the chambers are all cut for the longer MkI brass regardless of the manufacturer, Colt, Smith or Webley.

All of the currently available brass, Fiocchi, Hornady or Starline is all MkII and will work but you will get better accuracy out of the longer MkI cases as the bullets don't have to jump as far to enter the chamber throat.

The Dominion brass will be marked "455 Colt" but is the same as 455 Eley and is the longer MkI case.

Ken Water's book "Pet Loads" has a good write up on the 455 Eley and is the only reloading data I have seen for the MkI case.

Redding makes a very nice die set for the 455.

As far as bullets go, I wasted time and money buying a mold for the 455 Eley bullet that RCBS makes or did make. In all my 455s they did not shoot well and I had much more success with the 454424 and RCBS 45-270-SAA molds.

 

[Model19man]

Redding and CH have made die sets recently in all calibers for the British revolvers. I would contact them for a list of distributors. The stuff is out there. Bullets are too; you would need to find both to be able to reload successfully.

 

[Model19man]

Specs here - this is pretty old so you may want to copy it as I don't know how long it might last - British Service Revolver cartridge specs and diagrams - British Militaria Forums

 

[glowe]

Mid-South Shooters had dies for under $40. Factory bullets were hollow-base and conical, si I purchased a bullet mold for them. Apparently the best for this caliber since all original ammunition was loaded with that lead bullet. I currently have three 455s, each in a different caliber. I still like shooting the original factory ammo the best, but reload 45 Colt and reduced loadings for 45 SCP for the other two.

 

[45NUTT]

Thanks all! I am not really looking for a reason to have to reload since I have successfully avoided it for so long. I guess I'll stick to 45 ACP and 45 Colt.

Those ^^^^455's are really nice looking too.

 

[austintexas]

455 cal

Years ago I bought a Smith 455 (from Old Town Station) that had been sent back to Smith & Wesson in 1927 and converted into 45 Colt, target sights installed front and rear. Never thought to see if it would still shoot .455. I'll have to dig it out and check.
SWCA 892

 

[Jack Flash]

A Few Notes on the .455 (... well, maybe a lot of notes!)

1960s vintage Lyman Manuals have loading data for both the longer Mk I and the shorter Mk II cartridges. Old manuals are usually available at gun shows if you look for them.

Also, Pet Loads by Ken Waters has a lot of very useful information and load data on the .455 Eley/Colt/Webley.

My understanding is that the .455 Eley, the .455 Revolver Mk I, and the .455 Colt are all basically the same cartridge. The case length is 0.880".

Originally a black powder round, ".455 Revolver Mark I" was the British Army's designation for the cartridge when they adopted it in 1892. Perhaps Eley wanted to put their own name on the round for commercial sales to civilians? (Colt of course always hated to put anybody else's name on their barrels, so they had to “create” a round and name it after themselves).

When smokeless powder was introduced, the British Army went to the shorter, more efficient Mk II version, with a case length of somewhere around 0.770", depending on the reference you are looking at. Colt continued to make the long-er round, using smokeless powder of course, up until around WWII or shortly thereafter.

Buffalo Arms has both cases (you need to go to their website for up-to-date in-formation and prices). The .455 Colt is $38/100 and the .455 Webley Mk II is $25/100. When I bought mine a few years ago, they were made from .45 Colt brass cut down to 0.890" and with the rim properly thinned.

I bought several boxes of loaded Dominion .455 Colt from a local gun shop. They said they got it from another little shop that went out of business. It pays to keep your eyes open.
[Shown below with Fiocchi Mk II for comparison. Note the small pistol primers on the Fiocchi rounds.]

 

[22hipower]

Years ago I bought a Smith 455 (from Old Town Station) that had been sent back to Smith & Wesson in 1927 and converted into 45 Colt, target sights installed front and rear. Never thought to see if it would still shoot .455. I'll have to dig it out and check.
SWCA 892

A little thread drift here. . . . Yes, please dig that one out and show us some pictures. I've only seen one old N frame from the period with factory documentation of those modifications and I bought it at last year's Symposium auction. Here's mine which shipped as a commercial 1917 in 1927 and was converted to a 45 Colt Target in 1949.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

https://flic.kr/p/2pXVBEo https://www.flickr.com/photos/194934231@N03/

https://flic.kr/p/2pXV8C5 https://www.flickr.com/photos/194934231@N03/

 

[Dave_n]

There used to be an excellent bullet Caster in Alberta known as Jet Bullets who produced the 265 grain 0.455 Webley bullet. Evidently he has closed shop but if you look at "Jet Bullets Alberta" on the web you will find substitutes listed under the British Militaria Web Site. Luckily I still have some left. Dave_n

 

[austintexas]

.455

I reload The longer case with Colt semi-wadcutter bullets, don't remember the bullet weight, doesn't seem to affect the accuracy. Makes a mean looking round.
SWCA 892

 

[gwpercle]

I was just noodling around on GB and adding some HE's to my watchlist. I would like to add a bigger caliber to my stable and the 44's are a little pricey! But, the 455's & 1917's are a little more reasonable.

The 1917's in 45 acp are easier to get ammo for .You can poke around and even find 45 Auto-Rim if you don't like moon clips .
I prefer the S&W 1917 ... in either caliber .
If you reload ... then the 455's ammo is no problem ...
a little poking around will get you reloading dies and cases .
Fiocchi is still producing 455 ammo or at least they were .
I reload and cast bullets so a reasonably priced S&W 455 would be right up my alley !
Good Luck with your quest ,
Gary