457 MAGAZINE DISCONNECT ISSUE-RANGE REPORT

[bobsleatherworks]

Hello Everyone,

Took my brand new/old 457 to the range for a function test:

Reliabilty to fire every time: FAIL

Problem turned out to be the magazine disconnect function.

After the firing the first round when the mag was definitely fully seated, the weapon "behaved" like the mag was not. A round had been rechambered, the gun cocked, but the trigger had become disconnected.

So, I had learned to press the mag release button, drop and reseat the mag and continue firing. Sometimes the gun kept cycling and firing okay...but sometimes not.

On one firing sequence...because I was feeling for it, I felt the bottom of the mag move almost imperceptibly downward against my palm when it had disconnected again and subsequently failed to fire.

Soooo, what's the fix for this? A new magazine release spring, the catch...or is it something else more sinister?

BTW, all my mags are factory S&W stainless steels...

Take it away....

Bob

 

[max]

For some reason 457 mags seem very difficult to fully seat. Did you have it pushed in as far as possible and locked?

 

[bobsleatherworks]

Hi Max...It is a hard push but there is a click, so you "assume" it fully seated. I think there's "play" in the way the mags seat and lock up...But, in the case of mine, its now an intermittent problem and that makes the gun unreliable for defensive use. Either I have to learn how to eliminate the "play", disable the disconnect function, or lose the gun.

Is there a way to disable the mag disconnect function???

 

[SW CQB 45]

could there be crud blocking the depression of the magazine safety plunger in the slide? does the plunger depress and spring back?

is the ejector broke or missing a chunk that would cause it not to move upward when inserting a mag? image below shows the ejector extension on the non ejection side.

is the mag lips damaged to where it not pushing up on the lever?

just a few ideas

empty gun
empty chamber
empty mag

insert empty mag into empty gun

will it dry fire?

 

[Mack]

I have a 908 that was acting the same way, sometimes it would fire sometimes the disconnect would not engage. Replaced the worn plastic mag catch and now all is fine. This was an easy and not expensive fix, about $20 for new mag catch, spring and mag catch nut. Once I figured out the nut is a push on fit and not threaded I took a proper sized punch and removed the old catch and replaced with new. Took about two minutes. My 457 has a metal mag catch but even metal can wear out, if yours is used and has been shot or even just loaded a lot you might consider replacing the catch.

m.

 

[Jimmymac46]

457 mags are definitely hard to seat, especially with the magazine full and the slide closed over a chambered round. I find it is best to seat a fully loaded magazine when the slide is locked to the rear. Then release the slide allowing it to grab the top round and leave it as it is......with one less in the mag. When I have followed this procedure, I have not had issued with the mag not being fully seated. The other alternative is to carry it in Condition Three- a fully loaded mag with the slide forward, safety off, and an empty chamber. It only takes a fraction of a second to chamber a round in an emergency and the gun, when carried in this manner is always safe, especially if dropped or taken from you. Inserting the magazine will still require considerable force however.

Nothing could be worse than carrying a gun with the mag not fully locked in position. I don't like disconnects for that reason....probably why I frequently enjoy carrying my Colt 1911.

As stated above, try functioning the gun with an empty mag inserted, release the slide, and dry fire it. If it works, it's probably not the disconnect.

I just tried my 457. I removed the mag, empty, then reinserted it with the slide in battery. I heard a click and it appeared to be all the way in with the butt plate nearly touching the grip frame. I pulled on the mag and it came out....it was not fully seated. I then slammed the palm of my hand against the mag and it fully seated. I knew this was a problem with this model, and others, so I have not had issues when I use the procedure above.

The 457 is a great carrying, accurate, reliable, powerful weapon and this shortfall has not altered my opinion of it. Just be aware.

 

[WildCard ZX6R]

This is why mag "safeties" give me bad vibes. IMOHO

 

[Fastbolt]

The next time you've inserted a full magazine with the slide already forward in battery, and you hear a slight 'click', give tug on the mag butt plate to see if the mag has indeed been firmly seated and locked in place or if you can pull it from the gun.

Just like we teach to do when seating full AR mags on a closed bolt, even if the shooter hears a 'click'. If the mag can be withdrawn it wasn't actually locked in place. You ought to see some folks over react (yank) when they tug on what they think is a firmly locked AR mag, only to find it easily pulled out of the lower receiver because the mag catch had fully caught.

Sure, a mag catch can become worn over time, or an occasional one might not be within spec when used in a particular gun.

Does an empty mag easily and consistently lock in place when inserted in the gun with the slide locked back?

I often make it a habit to give a seated mag a firm smack with my palm after I've already inserted it in a gun with the slide forward in battery, and a slight tug on the butt plate, just to make sure it's actually locked in place and that the mag catch hasn't only partially caught it (which could result in a release of the mag upon recoil).

It's easier to load the mag into an empty gun from slide-lock, of course, but if someone wants to 'top off' their gun after loading the chamber (from the mag) it can naturally be more difficult inserting a full mag back into the gun when the slide is forward than when inserting a mag from which rounds have been removed (normal spring tension issue).

I've seen more than my fair share of folks insert a fresh mag while the gun is holstered (duty holster), and mistaking a slight click of partial mag catch engagement as meaning the catch has fully and securely caught the mag, and then when they draw and fire they only get off 1 round, because the recoil of the first round has caused their partially seated mag to come unseated and dislodge. Sometimes the mag falls out of the gun and sometimes it drops just enough disconnect the gun. Sometimes a round is stripped and chambered before the mag comes unseated and sometimes it doesn't.

Having them give a slight tug/pull on the butt plate after pushing the mag into the holstered gun has resulted in any number of them discovering to their surprise that the mags really hadn't been locked in place. Applying a short but brisk smack with the heel of their hand onto the butt plate of the seated mag, and then checking the mags by tugging on the butt plate to confirm a proper & complete seating, has generally resolved their 'problem' (meaning it was shooter induced in the first place).

Then again, I came across a case where a mag catch cutout had been improperly cut a while back. That was a first for me (in 20 years of using S&W TDA pistols).

 

[WR Moore]

The extension on the ejector isn't necessary for proper function of the S&W magazine disconnector. If it's broken off, the piece will run just fine, it's a fail-safe design.

In addition to some comments already made, magazine disconnectors can actually be a major benefit, keeping the weapon from firing as the magazine drops in the mag well. Benefit? Yep, your ingrained training to a failure to fire should be tap, rack, ready. If the magazine has dropped on the ground due to recoil, you're now SOL-unless you carry spare magazines and have a real speedy reload.

BTW, I've watched neigh onto 2 million rounds go downrange from disconnector equipped S&Ws. The only failures to fire were due to operator error and rapidly rectified.

You can also overdo the "slap" to seat the magazine. I once watched an M-4 launch 28 rounds out the ejection port due to split mag lips and an overenthusiatic [more 'manly'] magazine seating during a bolt back reload. Causing a double feed is more often observed even with good magazines.

 

[bobsleatherworks]

Gentlemen,

I haven't fired my 457 again since I started this thread, but I have cleaned it and took off the grips to teach myself how the mag disconnector mechanism works. So, with the slide off and an empty mag fully inserted to push up the ejector, I then depressed the ejector with a finger tip to mimic the pressure ordinarly effected by the black plastic "button" in my gun and noted that indeed the gun wouldn't fire until the ejector was released.

I've attached a photo of a loaded mag to show the position of the ejector when the slide is locked back...only way to really show this!

I'm now thinking that its probable/possible the black button on my gun somehow got "stuck" in the down position during recoil after some random shots due to some resident gunk in its seat in the slide. I flushed some Breakfree through this area and am eager to get back to the range to see if this intermittent "problem" has gone away.

Thanks for all the input.

Bob

 

[rremt_p]

This is interesting, I've had my 457 for 10+ years, and put several hundred rounds through it, the last time was Sunday. I've never experienced any problems with it failing to fire, or with seating the magazine. I have 4 factory S&W mags and three promags (btw I found that if you can get a promag cheap and replace the mag follower and spring with S&W parts that they are as good as S&W magazines for about half the price) Anyway never experienced this issue, but good to know how to fix it if it does happen.

 

[bobsleatherworks]

Hello rremt p,

It a nutshell, I still don't know for sure what caused the magazine disconnect issue with my 457 other than the fact it happened and was quickly overcome by dropping the mag and reseating it. But, the mag catch was not the cause. Rather, something had to have caused the ejector to be depressed enough...like slipping past the lip of the mag...to disconnect the trigger from the sear...as if the gun was on safe. So, my only guess so far is that the black button in my gun's slide was depressing the ejector in such a way to cause the disconnect. I'm going to a range tomorrow and if it happens again, I will get a new ejector which could be out of spec and a spring. Then, hopefully the problem will disappear.

Bob