First time it has happened with reloads, Hornady C/T 200g SWC lead bullets. 5.0G Titegroup. Should be about 850FPS. Leaded up both of my 1911's. I have used this loading before with no issues, wonder it Hornady has a new batch formula.
45ACp Bad Leading
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Fishslayer
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
Different batch of bullets? Maybe different lube?
Titegroup is known to not play well with bare lead but if you had no problems before...
Titegroup is known to not play well with bare lead but if you had no problems before...
fredj338
Member
If they are 0.452", your lube is likely failing. Where is the leading?? TG & lead, rarely a good combo.
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Aren't those Hornady bullet swaged? if so, they are pretty soft.
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Titegroup generally works well with lead bullets, but there are exceptions to everything. Before you give up on it, decrease your powder charge, then increase it and shoot some magazine-full groups from a solid benchrest at twenty-five yards, checking both accuracy and possible leading after each group.
If these bullets worked before and don't work now, they may be undersized. If you have a micrometer (a caliper won't work), check to make sure they measure .452". I doubt hardness between the good batch and bad batch varied enough to matter, but decreasing and increasing your charge until leading stops will help you eliminate this variable.
I think I may have tried this bullet years ago, but don't recall for sure. Good luck in your endeavor-
If these bullets worked before and don't work now, they may be undersized. If you have a micrometer (a caliper won't work), check to make sure they measure .452". I doubt hardness between the good batch and bad batch varied enough to matter, but decreasing and increasing your charge until leading stops will help you eliminate this variable.
I think I may have tried this bullet years ago, but don't recall for sure. Good luck in your endeavor-
My experience with hornady swaged bullets in 44 caliber were the same.Beyond 700fps they leaded the barrel
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I use hard cast lead bullets in pistols, revolvers and pistol-caliber carbines. Bullets from Oregon Trails (Laser-cast) don't lead the barrels, even at carbine velocities (1800 fps). Swaged, soft lead bullets leave tinsel strips of lead in the rifling above 600-700 fps. Bullets cast from wheel weights lead the barrel almost as badly, due to the depressed melting point.
The 625 PC (.45 ACP) has cut rifling, which is deeper and supposed to work better for lead bullets than the EDM rifling in the 625 JM and others. However Laser-Cast bullets work at ridiculous velocity in a .44 Magnum carbine or hot (for S&W) revolver rounds.
The 625 PC (.45 ACP) has cut rifling, which is deeper and supposed to work better for lead bullets than the EDM rifling in the 625 JM and others. However Laser-Cast bullets work at ridiculous velocity in a .44 Magnum carbine or hot (for S&W) revolver rounds.
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Even very soft bullets will work without leading at higher velocities than many shooters would imagine possible. However, everything has to be just right, particularly bullet fit.
fredj338
Member
It isnt alloy hardness at 45acp pressures but lube failure or bullet fit. Leadin the entire bbl sounds like undersized bullet, but the hornady dry lube is pretty sketchy. If usong the lfcd you could be sizing the bullet down inside the case. If the expander is too small, the case could be swaging the softer bullet down in size.
If you want to shoot lead bullets, cast are better & cheaper than swaged. They can be just as uniform & better lubes. Many comm casters are mow doing coated too. Hornady swaged are not cheap.
If you want to shoot lead bullets, cast are better & cheaper than swaged. They can be just as uniform & better lubes. Many comm casters are mow doing coated too. Hornady swaged are not cheap.
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Well I measured the bullets, they are undersized. .449 for the most part. I know I have used them before, but perhaps not with Titegroup. Reminds me to go back to the basics, I normally don't measure bullets. Perhaps with lead ones I should.
Hornady lead bullets are swaged. Which means they are very soft......My cast acp bullets(WW) don't lead........Even with titegroup........
Walkingwolf
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I shoot soft cast(cowboy action bullets) over Red Dot, no leading. Red Dot is not a high velocity powder though, my loads only clock 800fps. IIRC the Hornady swagged bullets used graphite for a lube. I have shot pure lead using a lube of Bwax, tallow, and bar ivory soap. Never a lick of lead.
Barrel is a military surplus barrel.
Barrel is a military surplus barrel.
oysterer
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measure throats
my 25-2 has .455 throats and I use 454 cast bullets with great success. I do not have 455 cast and I do not cast my own. but you need to know your throats and match the bullet. Then find the right powder. If the bullets falls right through, too big, not going to accurate and will lead. If you put the bullets into the throat and see light while looking through, forget it. Or invest in a set of pin gauges.
my 25-2 has .455 throats and I use 454 cast bullets with great success. I do not have 455 cast and I do not cast my own. but you need to know your throats and match the bullet. Then find the right powder. If the bullets falls right through, too big, not going to accurate and will lead. If you put the bullets into the throat and see light while looking through, forget it. Or invest in a set of pin gauges.
Qc Pistolero
Member
I use Titegroup under a soft cast bullet and push them out at slighly over 900fps chronoed without any leading in different .38 and .357.
Like Fred 338 says,the bullet has got to fit or no matter what's the hardness,it'll lead.
Qc
Like Fred 338 says,the bullet has got to fit or no matter what's the hardness,it'll lead.
Qc
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Dale53
Member
I have a 625-6 Model of 1989 with a 5" barrel and a 625-8 JM Special with a 4" barrel. I also have two 1911's.
All shoot well with my home cast bullets. Alloy is WW's+2% tin, sized at .452" and lubed with White Label Carnauba Red. These bullets shoot extremely well at target and FULL velocities using Titegroup, Unique, Red Dot and other powders with NO leading, PERIOD.
FWIW,
Dale53
All shoot well with my home cast bullets. Alloy is WW's+2% tin, sized at .452" and lubed with White Label Carnauba Red. These bullets shoot extremely well at target and FULL velocities using Titegroup, Unique, Red Dot and other powders with NO leading, PERIOD.
FWIW,
Dale53
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pjames32
Member
0.449 is too small. Those bullets are going to lead everything. 0.452 is preferable depending on your bore size. Call Hornady!
fredj338
Member
Yeah pretty hard tp get a bullet to bump up that much. Undersized bulets, regardless of alloy & even vel, Will lead someplace in the bore.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Hornady's lead bullets are swaged, a process that requires very soft lead (nearly pure lead). Lubricant is little more than a surface application, probably graphite and/or moly based. I suspect that the temperature generated by powder combustion is causing some melting of the exposed bullet bases, transferring to the bore as a relatively uniform lead wash. Should come right out with a dry bronze bore brush prior to regular cleaning.
A slower burning powder may, or may not, alleviate the problem.
One thing you can try is to apply a light film of white lithium grease to the bullet's bearing surface and base. This is easy to do with the finger tips, although a bit time consuming (about 150 per hour while watching TV). Lithium grease is available at any auto parts store in small tubes or grease-gun cartridges for a few bucks. I use it with cast bullet loads in rifles up to around 2500FPS or so with complete satisfaction. Lubrication is excellent and lithium grease has melting point and flash resistance far higher than anything generated in a handgun load. I still have most of the $3 tube I purchased about 1987 after at thousands of rounds.
A more permanent solution would be to start using premium hard-cast bullets with high-tech lubricant from a reputable maker.
A slower burning powder may, or may not, alleviate the problem.
One thing you can try is to apply a light film of white lithium grease to the bullet's bearing surface and base. This is easy to do with the finger tips, although a bit time consuming (about 150 per hour while watching TV). Lithium grease is available at any auto parts store in small tubes or grease-gun cartridges for a few bucks. I use it with cast bullet loads in rifles up to around 2500FPS or so with complete satisfaction. Lubrication is excellent and lithium grease has melting point and flash resistance far higher than anything generated in a handgun load. I still have most of the $3 tube I purchased about 1987 after at thousands of rounds.
A more permanent solution would be to start using premium hard-cast bullets with high-tech lubricant from a reputable maker.
