.500 S&W vs .45-70 out of a 18" Barrel ?

[flundertaker]

I have been wanting a .45-70 lever action pig gun for a long time. Just when I was about to pull the figurative trigger on one I find out about Big Horn and their .500 S&W lever action carbine. Now I am stumped. I am not a ballistics guru so forgive me if the answer is obvious but what are the pros and cons of 1 over the other, with the EXCLUSION of the up front acquisition cost and lead time??

I do not currently have another gun in either caliber so no crossover advantage to either. I have a .460 and have no serious plans on buying a .500 revolver so thats an non issue. Ammo cost is about the same and have about the same availability in my AO. The .500 would probably hold 1 or 2 more in the tube. Not sure about energy at 25-50-75-100 yards. I would say that 100-150 yards would be the longest shot I would take with an open sited carbine with most being in the 35-70 yard range.

Your thoughts?

 

[BigBill]

The big bore heavier bullets loose there velocity very quickly. Like the 444marlin and the 45/70 marlin etc. These are short range heavy brush guns. With the 444 were looking at around 125 yards being the limits with a 240gr or 265gr bullet. Some are using the 300gr leadcast bullets in the 444 also. The 45/70 offers the same range with the 405gr bullet. I'm just using some examples here to compare bullet weights. I think to dig further into the meat of this comparison we need to punch in a data into a ballastics caculator to see which one rivals the other. Good luck on your quest. There are ballastics calculators free to use online. Bill

We've had shots at bears as close as 15 to 20 yards.

I would go with the marlin 45/70 cowboy rifle. It's a fine looking rifle with its octagon barrel.

Wild west guns in Alaska offers there new lever action in a magnum caliber it's either a 457 magnum or a 500cal I'm not sure.

 

[Dutchs]

I have the Marlin 1895 GBL I believe it is the 18 inch barrel. Input the Wild West trigger in it and shoot the 45-70 at 100 to 150 yards inside the bullseye pretty much all the time. I'm probably biased on this but the 45-70 is very versatile in my eyes. It can be loaded way hot from what I hear as well! I shoot anything from the Cowboy loads to 405 grain Buffalo Bore!


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[Ivan the Butcher]

First Hornady has a Ballistic calculator on their home page. If the 45-70 will do what you want the cost of factory ammo or reloading components will be far less, allowing for more practice and fun shoots. The mass on 500's up to 700 grain is unbelievable and makes momentum much greater that the foot pounds of energy represent, this adds to felt recoil. I have a Guide Gun in 45-70 and I shoot a 400 grain very hard cast bullet at 1800 feet per second (Loads can go as high as 2300fps), and it will cure whatever ails you but recoil starts being painful for practice sessions in this velocity range. I get about 1 1/2" 5 shot, fast as I can groups with this (2 to 3 seconds). A 700 grain bullet at 1200 -1400 fps, 500 S&W makes my eyes water just thinking about it, but I bet it is a rush! Ivan

 

[flundertaker]

First Hornady has a Ballistic calculator on their home page. If the 45-70 will do what you want the cost of factory ammo or reloading components will be far less, allowing for more practice and fun shoots. The mass on 500's up to 700 grain is unbelievable and makes momentum much greater that the foot pounds of energy represent, this adds to felt recoil. I have a Guide Gun in 45-70 and I shoot a 400 grain very hard cast bullet at 1800 feet per second (Loads can go as high as 2300fps), and it will cure whatever ails you but recoil starts being painful for practice sessions in this velocity range. I get about 1 1/2" 5 shot, fast as I can groups with this (2 to 3 seconds). A 700 grain bullet at 1200 -1400 fps, 500 S&W makes my eyes water just thinking about it, but I bet it is a rush! Ivan

yeah, I didnt fool with the ballistics calculator but I did check out their ammo specs and founds this:

325gr FXT .45-70 24" barrel
Muzzle: 2050 fps 3032 FtLbs
100y: 1729 / 2158

300gr FXT .500 S&W 8" barrel
Muzzle: 2075 fps 2868 ft lbs
100y: 1706 / 1939

Not apples to apples because of slightly different bullet weights and the fact that there is a significant barrel length difference. Based on the fire ball, I would guess the .500 could use more barrel to more efficiently burn all the powder. On Buffalo Bore's site I found pretty much the same thing. The .45-70 appears to have slightly more ummph but again an apples to apples comparison wasnt apparent. I will leave the ballistics calculators to someone smarter than I.

I did check capacity and the Big Horn is a 7+1 configuration where the .45-70 guide guns are typically 4+1, so this is a significant difference.

 

[mc5aw]

Last week, a friend showed me a photo from his recent pig hunt. It showed a 200 lb porker that had been taken with a single .338 Lapua round. The entry cavity was big enough to put a man's fist in. Too much gun.

I think the 500 is also too much gun, unless you're hunting 400-500 + lb'ers. The 45-70 is a traditional buffalo hunter, so it's a biggin too. But I'd forget the 500 and go with the 45-70.

 

[venomballistics]

45-70 vs 500 .. I'd call it a close race within the intended purpose.
At the end of the race where the bills are paid, keeping em fed puts a square advantage upon the 45-70.
even at the reloaders level, anything 50 cal is twice the price, and more rifle powders can be found on the shelves than pistol powders right now.

 

[flundertaker]

looking for additional thoughts on this. I respectfully disagree about the cost of ammo, at least in my AO. .45-70 is fairly uncommon but there seems to be a decent supply of .500 S&W. I see more .500 on the shelves than I do .460.

 

[klausinak]

A few thoughts: from a reloading standpoint, (@least in my area), it's a lot easier to find components for the 45-70. Another thing to consider is that for a given bullet weight, the 45-70 will most likely penetrate better, (long skinny bullets like to stay straight better than short stubby ones), so comparing say 300 grain bullets is not quite apples & apples . I don't have any mileage in a .500 so I can't really give an honest opinion of the cartridge, however, I'm fairly certain that the piggies aren't going to notice much difference provided you do your part. Another thought, does Big Horn make the same thing in a .460? Then you'd have your rifle/handgun combo.

Just my .02...

-Klaus

 

[Rule3]

Which one to you like the best.??

As far as killing a pig I really do not think there is any difference between the 2.

Heck I would be happy with the 460 as I can shoot 2 more caliber from it and still kill most any animal if I was a hunter.

I am waiting for my LGS to get in a nice used 460SW. Plenty of 500's came through, No not the "new" SW 460 with a 3" barrel What engineer came up with that brilliant concept?

 

[rwsmith]

I would use...

I would use the ballistics calculator for trajectory, as that is usually important. One may be more flat shooting up close, but fall off faster at distance. This is a useful piece of hard data along with the velocities at 50, 75, 100, 150 yards.

 

[flundertaker]

A few thoughts: from a reloading standpoint, (@least in my area), it's a lot easier to find components for the 45-70. Another thing to consider is that for a given bullet weight, the 45-70 will most likely penetrate better, (long skinny bullets like to stay straight better than short stubby ones), so comparing say 300 grain bullets is not quite apples & apples . I don't have any mileage in a .500 so I can't really give an honest opinion of the cartridge, however, I'm fairly certain that the piggies aren't going to notice much difference provided you do your part. Another thought, does Big Horn make the same thing in a .460? Then you'd have your rifle/handgun combo.

Just my .02...

-Klaus

I wish big horn made a 460 but lever actions get finicky when the cartridge is significantly shorter than the action and folks would want to shoot 45LC out of the 460 and there would be feeding problems inevitably. They claim to be working on something but for now 500 is it.

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[vipermd]

A few thoughts: Another thing to consider is that for a given bullet weight, the 45-70 will most likely penetrate better, (long skinny bullets like to stay straight better than short stubby ones), so comparing say 300 grain bullets is not quite apples & apples .

The 500 sw hard cast 440,500,600, or 700 gr loaded to spec will run through any thing alive. Handgunners have used the 500 to take the big 5 in africa and will shoot through the skull of elephants/buffalo out of a handgun.
If cost of ammo/components is not a point of concern the 500 is the heavy hitter in regards to momentum as stated above. If you compare equal weight bullets the FPE will be very close.
I have 45-70 + 500 rifles, and more than a few 500 revolvers and I am looking for a BFR in 7.5 45-70, very light shooting with 300 gr bullets.

For hogs/deer/bear/moose, pick which you like go with the appropriate load. both will work well. Be Safe,