5906 discharge ith magazine removed

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I am all for taking the high road and it is not a regular part of my day to be unfriendly and condescending.

That changes when people willfully DO STUPID THINGS WITH HANDGUNS.

You wish to judge me for me posts in this thread?
Have at it. I'll sleep well tonight.
 
Seems to have gotten all testy in here, to put it as tactfully as possible.

Personally I hope that the original poster, who knows very well he did something stupid and dangerous, learns from it and continues to learn, so that he can maintain an interest in guns and their proper use. Some people come late to the game and may not know what's a defect and what is not. I'd bet he has learned some valuable lessons about the sacred Four Rules, the hard way. It certainly has been addressed in this thread.

I haven't seen a "martyr' or "hero" here, but then I guess I wasn't looking for that element, or for the implication of either.

I have had one unmistakably negligent discharge of a firearm, with no one harmed. It was forty-five years ago and occurred when I had owned and used guns for a long time.

I still own guns and shoot them.

Perhaps I shouldn't, but I do. I learned that even an experienced shooter can get careless, and I've never repeated the mistake.
 
Wthur - I am so glad you are okay! Yes, this was a negligent discharge and there have been many out there. We hear about them, but how many have we not heard of, people who know they made a mistake, but choose to swallow their pride and forget it ever happened! I have been around firearms for a long time. I will always remember Army basic training, range officers and drill sergeants screaming at new recruits, many who have never fired weapons before. Range firing seemed pretty regimented, somewhat safe, that is until the range was thought to be clear and a firearm would somehow go off! THEN, all hell would break loose! Fortunately, I never saw any injuries there, but the thought of it will always ring true. There was a reason, range safety rules were demanded for all our safety, weapons always pointed downrange, weapons cleared by shooters and their safeties and a simple "No Brass, No ammo Drill Sergeant!" Seemed like an "overkill" at the time but there was a reason for the rules! BMCM's reminder of Col Cooper's four rules which are good ones, seems simple enough, but sadly enough, we are usually reminded of these after an incident, either AD or negligent! These weapons can hurt you and/or others and if we all handle them as if they are loaded, less incidents and injuries will occur. Wthur, while trying to prove a point, left himself wide open depending on a manufacturer's safety feature. Whether a round was still chambered or not, he jeopardized his safety by assuming the safety feature would work. We all make mistakes and we learn from them. Wthur now knows his mistake and I am sure he has learned something from it. I will not judge him, but I do hope he sees more into it than that of a manufacturing defect! - Rick
 
I held the pistol down and touched the trigger...it fired through my left arm, pretty bad wound.
Just wanting to warn everyone about this defect.
I've been trying visualize this contortion but I've been unable to.

There's nothing wrong with function checking a safety, in fact it's good idea to do so. The defect was that you "touched the trigger" without verifying the gun was unloaded.

EDIT to add: When you use phrases like 'touched the trigger' and 'it fired', and 'I know I should have triple checked the chamber', and 'warn everyone about the defect' it gives the impression that you aren't accepting responsibility for what happened. You 'pulled' the trigger, you never once checked the chamber, you fired the gun, and you were defective in your handling of the gun.
 
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I've been trying visualize this contortion but I've been unable to.

There's nothing wrong with function checking a safety, in fact it's good idea to do so. The defect was that you "touched the trigger" without verifying the gun was unloaded.

Not to mention it was pointed at YOUR body part.
 
The best firearm safety lies betweem the ears, when that's defective one shouldn't do dangerous things.

I tell my students

"I'm your worst nightmare on the witness stand in a accidental shooting case... you purposefully loaded the gun, you deliberately did not unload it, you pointed it in an unsafe direction, put your finger on the trigger and pulled said trigger... WHAT PART OF THAT WAS ACCIDENTAL?"
 
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I belielve that some have.....

From what I understand with the 3rd generation Smith auto's they are made to do that. If you have pressure on the trigger and drop the mag it will still fire. I'm not sure the reason, but I believe it's the way they are made. If there is no pressure on the trigger and the mag is dropped and then you pull the trigger it won't fire. If as I said you have pressure on the trigger then drop the mag it will fire. I know it works that way on my S&W 457 as well as the 6906 I had. When I first started being a cop I carried a S&W 6906 and was told by the training Lt. that in the event of a gun grab as a last resort drop the mag and it wouldn't fire. About a year later I went to Street Survival and they showed us that it would fire. Glad your OK.

I believe that some have magazine disconnects depending on what department it was ordered for or for the civilian market. Mine won't shoot without the mag in, but I'm not going to hold it up to my arm to test it.

Review - Always treat a gun as if it were loaded. Dropping the magazine doesn't necessariiy mean it's unloaded. Never point it at a person, in this case yourself. And lastly, don't depend on safety devices. They don't always work. Always point down or in a safe direction around people.

I think you should stay after school and write this on the chalkboard. Seriously though, I'm glad it wasn't worse.:)
 
I am not familiar with the mechanics of the pistol, but could a previous owner had removed the magazine safety ?

Um, not likely. If someone is demonstrating a feature to someone else, I would "assume" it had been done before? For me I check all relevant features before I buy a handgun, AND regularly when I shoot and clean it. IMO good policies.
 
Accidental discharge ? Neither showing off, nor demonstrating, nor many years of military / LEO service, nor experience can prevent a fine mechanical device from functioning, AS INTENDED. A demonstration while pointing the business end anywhere except a safe direction ?

OBITUARY
Houston Home Journal
November 28, 1889

Death of Dr. Havis
"At about twelve o'clock Tuesday night, November 26th, Dr. M. W. Havis died at his residence in Perry, from the effects of a wound accidentally received last Friday morning.
The interment took place at Evergreen Cemetery yesterday afternoon. Dr. Havis having been an honorary member of the Perry Rifles, and that command being honorary members of the 1st Ga. Reg. Veterans' Association, of which he was an active and esteemed member, he was buried with military honors.

Six ex-members of the Southern Rights Battery, of which company Dr. Havis was Captain, acted by request as pall-bearers."

The fatal wound occurred at the hardware store of Hugh Lawson located on Carroll Street in the doctor's hometown of Perry, Georgia. Dr. Havis had been inspecting a new 38 caliber hammerless Smith & Wesson pistol; the pistol accidentally fired .

"the bullet entered the person of Dr. Havis, about an inch to the left of the spine, passing through the bone near the hip bone. Dr. Havis then started to walk home, but stopped at the post office. There in a short while Drs. J. B. Smith, D. R. Mann, H. M. Holtzclaw, L. A. Felder, of Perry and Dr. Joseph Palmer, of Oak Lawn attended him. The bullet was probed for, but not extracted, though ascertained to be in the abdomenal cavith (sic). Afterward, about an hour after the wound was received, he walked about 300 yards to his resinence(sic) accompanied by the physicians and several other friends.

At first the wound was recognized as a serious one, though a fatal result was not anticipated. Dr. Havis contended that the bullet was in his bowels, but he was convinced to the contrary.

At home he was constantly attended by the physicians, with the utmost care and skill, and several of his closet friends were with him during each day. At night two doctors were with him.

With the deepest solicitude the people asked often about his condition, and at no time, except possibly early Monday night, was death apprehended. He slept well the latter part of that night, and at noon Tuesday it was believed, and Dr. Havis so expressed himself, that the crisis had passed and that he would recover. Drs. Smith and elder were with him Tuesday night, when at about 11 o'clock a change occurred, and at 12 he was a corpse.

Dr. Havis was 60 years old last April, had been a resident of Perry about 50 years, and began the practice of medicine about 38 years. ago.

He was a man of thorough education, exceptionally able in the knowledge and practice of his profession, and of very strong convictions. Possessed of indomitable will, he was remarkably well preserved for a man of his age. He was a man of strict integrity, with an exceeding high regard for justice. Thoroughly honest in word and deed, he was charitable always, though sometimes apparently harsh. No man we ever knew possessed the confidence and esteem of his friends in a higher degree, and all who knew him were his friends.

He was a consistent member of the Presbyterian Church, a true Christian, a good man in the highest sense. He leaves of his immediate family a heart-broken widow and a nephew, who is an adopted son. His other relatives are five sisters and their families.

The profoundest sorrow prevails, for the community loses one of its best citizens, and our people a strong and steadfast friend. The bereaved ones have the profoundest sympathy of all our people.

A good man has been called to his reward."
 
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YOU GOTTA DO THIS

Get familiar with your gun's operation. Revolvers are easy. Semis have about a dozen different configurations if not more. Just because you have operated a semi before doesn't mean that you can pick up one and know how it works. Too many people get killed like that. You are on this forum so you must be interested in guns rather than just shooting all over the place. You have to LEARN THE RULES. Get familiar with different types of actions. That's one thing I had against semis was that there are many different kinds, So I chose to go with the simplest possible since my wife and son are shooting it. Double Action Only, no external safety but the magazine does have an interlock that the trigger doesn't engage if the mag is out. That's a good feature to have if somebody is trying to take your gun from you.

I know the basics of a 1911 pistol. but if I had one, I would have to study and practice the manual of arms thoroughly. We don't automatically know everything about guns just because we are Americans. Shooting is a great learning experience and I"m glad you didn't get scared off by this accident.

Now, go forth and LEARN. Take a course if you want and in your case I'd advise it. There are about 5 main rules of handling firearms that everybody should know, but half the people with guns DON'T know. When you learn, you can help out a novice shooter.:):):)

PS After you learn about the actions and safety, you can start to learn to shoot, and that takes work, but it's fun work.
 
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Thanks OP! I will avoid all discussion of how you came to this realization, and as to whether this behavior is or is not a defect.

Without the original post, I personally would not have been aware of this behavior - and I've confirmed on 4 different 3rd gens now, that with widely varying degrees of trigger travel, I can reproduce the hammer dropping after the magazine is removed.

On one pistol, the trigger must be almost all the way back to the point of almost applying pressure against the sear, on others almost any pull back from the resting position will allow it. When the trigger is in this partially pulled position, removing the magazine (and it takes me 2 hands to do this without relaxing the trigger and thereby preventing the occurrence) can still allow the hammer to drop if the trigger is then fully pulled to the rear.

Interesting.
 
Before this thread I was not aware of this. Confirmed with my 4006 that the slightest of pressure on the trigger will cause the hammer to fall with magazine removed.
 
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This reminds me of the thread that was posted on here a few years ago where the guy shot and killed his dog because he thought the gun was unloaded.


He only posted once.
 
Before this thread I was not aware of this. Confirmed with my 4006 that the slightest of pressure on the trigger will cause the hammer to fall with magazine removed.

My 6906 functions as designed, but then again, I haven't experienced any of the catastrophic design defects regularly described on this forum. Of course, I don't try to make my handguns into something they are not. If I want a different feature, I buy a different gun.
 
Whenever I purchase a firearm (new or used) the first thing I do is test the function of said firearm WITHOUT LIVE AMMO.

Because of this I know that the "magazine disconnect" on all of my 3rd gen's do work.

But this thread got me wondering. So I just tested my 4-3rd gens and found that they all fire in both DA and SA when my finger is on the trigger before the mag is removed.
This was something that I never thought to check, but I would not call it a "defect".
 
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