Other than different cylinder assemblies are there any
mechanical differences between a 6 & 7 shot L frame?
mechanical differences between a 6 & 7 shot L frame?
6 vs 7 shot L frame mechanical differences
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Yes sir, the frame and internals are the same, other than the exception you noted.
Protocall_Design
Member
I have found that sometimes the same hand will work for both, and sometimes a different hand is needed for each one.
Ranger514
Member
I've forgotten the retailer, but several years ago, I personally ordered online after searching for S&W 686+ speed loaders. I came up with HKS #587 loaders that are perfect for my needs. There are other manufacturers of 7-round speed loaders. I chose HKS simply because I have a good history in using them dating back to the 1980s.
one eye joe
US Veteran
AFTER SEARCHING FOR A NICE USED, REASONABLY PRICED, 2 1/2" M686+ WITHOUT AN IL FOR SOME TIME, I DECIDED TO TAKE A DIFFERENT TACTIC.....
I QUESTIONED 2 WELL RESPECTED LOCAL 'SMITHS WHO TOLD ME THAT ITS POSSIBLE THAT A 7 SHOT CYLINDER, COULD FUNCTION PERFECTLY IN ONE PARTICULAR GUN, WITHOUT ANY ALTERATIONS OR FITTING......
I FOUND A CLEAN NO-DASH 2 1/2" M686, THAT HAD NEVER BEEN RETURNED FOR THE "M" MODS. INTENDING IT FOR RELIABLE EDC, I TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THE FREE SHIPPING AND SENT IT TO THE FACTORY, REQUESTING THAT THEY FIT THE REVOLVER WITH A 7 SHOT CYLINDER, WHILE IT WAS THERE. IT FUNCTIONED PERFECTLY, UPON ITS RETURN.......
I NEVER DID TRY TO SHOOT IT AGAIN WITH THE ORIGINAL CYLINDER. I SOLD THAT CYLINDER, AND THE ORIGINAL COMBATS ON THIS FORUM....
I SENT THE REVOLVER TO MASSAD AYOOB'S GUNSMITH, DENNIS REICHARD @ SAND BURR GUN RANCH, FOR HIS "DELUXE" ACTION PACKAGE. IT IS SLICKER THAN SNOT, AND 100% RELIABLE WITH EVERY BRAND OF FACTORY AMMO THAT I HAVE SHOT IN IT.....
THE SALE OF THE ORIGINAL PARTS, FINANCED THE CONVERSION OF THE STOCK REVOLVER, INTO THE EDC WEAPON PICTURED BELOW......
I QUESTIONED 2 WELL RESPECTED LOCAL 'SMITHS WHO TOLD ME THAT ITS POSSIBLE THAT A 7 SHOT CYLINDER, COULD FUNCTION PERFECTLY IN ONE PARTICULAR GUN, WITHOUT ANY ALTERATIONS OR FITTING......
I FOUND A CLEAN NO-DASH 2 1/2" M686, THAT HAD NEVER BEEN RETURNED FOR THE "M" MODS. INTENDING IT FOR RELIABLE EDC, I TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THE FREE SHIPPING AND SENT IT TO THE FACTORY, REQUESTING THAT THEY FIT THE REVOLVER WITH A 7 SHOT CYLINDER, WHILE IT WAS THERE. IT FUNCTIONED PERFECTLY, UPON ITS RETURN.......
I NEVER DID TRY TO SHOOT IT AGAIN WITH THE ORIGINAL CYLINDER. I SOLD THAT CYLINDER, AND THE ORIGINAL COMBATS ON THIS FORUM....
I SENT THE REVOLVER TO MASSAD AYOOB'S GUNSMITH, DENNIS REICHARD @ SAND BURR GUN RANCH, FOR HIS "DELUXE" ACTION PACKAGE. IT IS SLICKER THAN SNOT, AND 100% RELIABLE WITH EVERY BRAND OF FACTORY AMMO THAT I HAVE SHOT IN IT.....
THE SALE OF THE ORIGINAL PARTS, FINANCED THE CONVERSION OF THE STOCK REVOLVER, INTO THE EDC WEAPON PICTURED BELOW......
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HKS 587 speed loaders are readily available. I have a few for my 686-4+.
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CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Winner winner chicken dinner. I wish I had gotten the 7 shot cylinder when I sent my 681 back for the M fix.
Would you be so kind as to enlighten me about this "M" fix?
When a cylinder change is made to another cyl with one more or one less chambers the same hand will work, at least I've not ever had one that didn't. If it doesn't, it can be fitted to work perfectly with the two different cyls., they are just that close and within the tolerance of the hand functioning correctly.
When changing from a 6 shot cyl where the hand revolves the cyl 60 degrees for each chamber, it will need to revolve a 7 shot only 51.4 degrees. Not a big difference. For a 5 shot cyl it's 72 degrees per chamber.
When changing from a 6 shot cyl where the hand revolves the cyl 60 degrees for each chamber, it will need to revolve a 7 shot only 51.4 degrees. Not a big difference. For a 5 shot cyl it's 72 degrees per chamber.
It was for the 586 & 686 firing pin recall. If it's been done there's an M stamp in yoke.
cjwils
Member
With a 7 shot revolver, there is a little less meat in the cylinder compared to to 6 shot for the same outer dimensions. Therefore, the cylinder is not at strong. But for normal ammo, it should not matter.
I have the same setup, and my 7 shot cylinder is cut for moonclips so speedloaders are not an issue. At some point I'm going to send the 6 shot cylinder to TK Customs and have it cut also.
I'm not so sure that is the case.
The 7 shot L frame puts the notch for the bolt in between the cylinders, not on top of the chamber. That works because of the offset at the bottom of the cylinder with an odd number of chambers when a chamber is inline with the bore,
Ruger did the same on their six shot Security, Service, Speed Six series, offsetting the bolt to make it work, if I recall correctly. The idea was to create a stronger cylinder at more or less normal K frame dimensions by eliminating that thin spot.
That approach eliminates the thin spot in the chamber that is the norm on a regular 6 shot revolver, and almost all the failures I have seen cracked through that notch.
As requested, the recall/refit info:
SMITH & WESSON
MODEL 581, 586, 681, 686, or 581-1,
586-1, 681-1, 686-1 & 686CS-1, REVOLVERS
RECALL: Reports have been received from the field where the combination of a SMITH & WESSON L-FRAME 357 MAGNUM REVOLVER and some .357 Magnum ammunition has resulted in unacceptable cylinder binding. L-frame revolvers bearing model numbers:
581, 586, 681, 686, or 581-1, 586-1,
681-1, 686-1, 686CS-1
Cylinder binding can cause a failure to fire. Mishandling a revolver while freeing the cylinder can result in accidental discharge.
Cylinder binding can result from a number of causes, including characteristics of an individual revolver or the use of ammunition, which does not conform to industry pressure specifications or is particularly fast burning. Recent developments in ammunition manufacture emphasize the production of .357 Magnum ammunition with increased velocity and greater primer sensitivity.
Although there have been very few reported incidents of cylinder binding, in view of our concern for our customer's safety and the reliability of Smith & Wesson products in all circumstances, we issue the following warning:
In a situation where a failure to fire can be critical - such as law enforcement or personal protection - do not use .357 Magnum ammunition with an L-frame revolver bearing model numbers 581, 586, 681, 686 or 581-1, 586-1, 681-1, 686-1, 686CS-1 without an "M" over the model number until you have had the revolver modified.
Those who need to use their L-frame revolver under these conditions prior to modification can safely fire .38 Special caliber ammunition.
Smith & Wesson has developed a modification to improve existing L-frame revolvers. This improvement enables them to fire all .357 Magnum ammunition, without cylinder binding. Shipments of L-frame revolvers from our factory after August 21, 1987 already include this improvement.
You can check if your revolver includes this improvement by looking at the left side of the frame when the cylinder is fully open. If your revolver has been stamped either with a "2" or higher number after the basic three-digit model number or with an "M" above the model number, your revolver includes this improvement and does not need modification. If your revolver bears the model number 581, 586, 681, 686, or 581-1, 586-1, 681-1, 686-1, 686CS-1 without an "M" over the model number, it does not include this improvement and your should have your revolver modified.
Smith & Wesson will modify your L-frame revolver free of charge to eliminate the possibility of cylinder binding with .357 Magnum ammunition. Law enforcement agencies wishing to arrange for modification of L-frame revolvers should call 800-331-0852 between 9 A.M. and 6 P.M. Eastern time (MA residents call 413-734-8244). Other users should send their revolvers to a Smith & Wesson Warranty Service Center, specifying "L-frame improvement program" and enclosing their name and return address.
One of the modifications to improve the L-frame revolver is the installation of a new hammer nose. This obsoletes all old L-frame hammer noses (part numbers 4702 and 7513) and all old L-frame hammer assemblies (part numbers 3366, 3378, 3380, 3382, 3391, 4722, 4723, 4726 and 4728) in field parts inventories. Superseded parts should never be fitted into a modified revolver as this may result in malfunction. It is essential for safety that you return these obsolete L-frame hammer noses and obsolete L-frame hammer assemblies for a free exchange to:
Smith & Wesson
Service Department
2100 Roosevelt Avenue
Springfield, MA 01101
SMITH & WESSON
MODEL 581, 586, 681, 686, or 581-1,
586-1, 681-1, 686-1 & 686CS-1, REVOLVERS
RECALL: Reports have been received from the field where the combination of a SMITH & WESSON L-FRAME 357 MAGNUM REVOLVER and some .357 Magnum ammunition has resulted in unacceptable cylinder binding. L-frame revolvers bearing model numbers:
581, 586, 681, 686, or 581-1, 586-1,
681-1, 686-1, 686CS-1
Cylinder binding can cause a failure to fire. Mishandling a revolver while freeing the cylinder can result in accidental discharge.
Cylinder binding can result from a number of causes, including characteristics of an individual revolver or the use of ammunition, which does not conform to industry pressure specifications or is particularly fast burning. Recent developments in ammunition manufacture emphasize the production of .357 Magnum ammunition with increased velocity and greater primer sensitivity.
Although there have been very few reported incidents of cylinder binding, in view of our concern for our customer's safety and the reliability of Smith & Wesson products in all circumstances, we issue the following warning:
In a situation where a failure to fire can be critical - such as law enforcement or personal protection - do not use .357 Magnum ammunition with an L-frame revolver bearing model numbers 581, 586, 681, 686 or 581-1, 586-1, 681-1, 686-1, 686CS-1 without an "M" over the model number until you have had the revolver modified.
Those who need to use their L-frame revolver under these conditions prior to modification can safely fire .38 Special caliber ammunition.
Smith & Wesson has developed a modification to improve existing L-frame revolvers. This improvement enables them to fire all .357 Magnum ammunition, without cylinder binding. Shipments of L-frame revolvers from our factory after August 21, 1987 already include this improvement.
You can check if your revolver includes this improvement by looking at the left side of the frame when the cylinder is fully open. If your revolver has been stamped either with a "2" or higher number after the basic three-digit model number or with an "M" above the model number, your revolver includes this improvement and does not need modification. If your revolver bears the model number 581, 586, 681, 686, or 581-1, 586-1, 681-1, 686-1, 686CS-1 without an "M" over the model number, it does not include this improvement and your should have your revolver modified.
Smith & Wesson will modify your L-frame revolver free of charge to eliminate the possibility of cylinder binding with .357 Magnum ammunition. Law enforcement agencies wishing to arrange for modification of L-frame revolvers should call 800-331-0852 between 9 A.M. and 6 P.M. Eastern time (MA residents call 413-734-8244). Other users should send their revolvers to a Smith & Wesson Warranty Service Center, specifying "L-frame improvement program" and enclosing their name and return address.
One of the modifications to improve the L-frame revolver is the installation of a new hammer nose. This obsoletes all old L-frame hammer noses (part numbers 4702 and 7513) and all old L-frame hammer assemblies (part numbers 3366, 3378, 3380, 3382, 3391, 4722, 4723, 4726 and 4728) in field parts inventories. Superseded parts should never be fitted into a modified revolver as this may result in malfunction. It is essential for safety that you return these obsolete L-frame hammer noses and obsolete L-frame hammer assemblies for a free exchange to:
Smith & Wesson
Service Department
2100 Roosevelt Avenue
Springfield, MA 01101
