60-1 +P

[oink]

I thought my model 60 was a no dash as it shows no dash. Inside the crane it just says MOD.60.

Well I called S&W support to find out if my gun would shoot +Ps safely. I was informed it was a 1983 -1. That would be around when I bought it (new). It turns out it's not old enough to be a no dash. OK, I don't care but interesting I guess.

As for the +Ps, the guy (Dave) said he could guarantee it would work once but they weren't guaranteed to work with +Ps. He advised that there have been some metallurgical changes since then.

That kinda disappoints me as I was wanting to find newer type ammo for it and do some practice with the new ammo. All of the good new ammo seems to be +P rated.

I have shot a few +Ps through it in the past but not many. Being stainless steel I'd of thought it was probably OK but I guess not. So, I guess I'll have to stick with my mild loads or not practice much with them but carry +Ps.

 

[kaaskop49]

Everyone seems to have an opinion on this matter but few seem to have any facts (Hi, Dave! ). IIRC, somewhere there is a sticky on +P usage but I may be incorrect. My understanding is that steel frame revolvers with a model number are safe to us with +P ammunition. I do not hesitate to use +P in such revolvers for practice, qualification, or carry.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[murphydog]

Well, where do we start...

A model 60 made in 1983 is a...wait for it...model 60. The 60-1 of that era is a 2" Target sighted version, made in 1985. In 1988 (after 23 years), the model 60 was replaced by the 60-3.

The official factory line is that no model 60 earlier than the -7 is "+ P rated". They are being cautious by telling you a 25 year old gun for which they have no history and cannot examine is not safe, which makes sense. The factory used to post any steel K or N frame model stamped gun was safe for .38 + P, and newer "J Magnum" frames are also +P approved.

That said, occasional + P use in a "non-approved" sound model 60 is fine. The extra cost and recoil convinces most that it is not necessary except to check function and zero. Hope this is helpful.

 

[oink]

OK, thanks. I gather "Dave" didn't know his stuff that well. The SN is ABH98XX if that helps. I don't actually remember what year I bought it but it would have been 80s. Any of you experts care to help out with the year?

Maybe I'll just keep the ammo I have in it. I'm not even sure what it is but it doesn't say +P. The range officer gave me about 15 rounds of what he called light stuff. It's Speer with a big ole hollow point. Might be Gold Dot but no gold dot. I think it was the same stuff I qualified with. It isn't "hot" in the steel model 60 at all. It shoots point of aim at any distance I'm concerned about with it.

 

[Texas Star]

A factory spokeswoman told me that M-60-4 is Plus P approved and had new metallurgy over older guns.

Actually, writer Jeff Cooper used to fire some really hot handloads in his older M-60, as did a CIA operative named Harry Archer, who wrote a few articles in, Gunfacts about 1970. I know Jeff's load, but won't publish it, as I think it may be marginally too hot. Continued extensive use would surely lead to premature cylinder endshake. He cited a muzzle velocity of 1,000 FPS. From his snub!

I doubt he fired that load much. Probably just to see how it shot, and then for carry.

Plus P ammo varies. That by most firms is mild by standards used by Buffalo Bore and Underwood. DO NOT use Plus P Plus in a .38! It was intended only for use in .357's owned by police who were forbidden to use .357 ammo for political reasons.

S&W reps told me this stuff wore K-framed .357's as badly as, or worse, than did the hot 125 grain Magnum ammo.

 

[old bear]

I purchased my one and only M-60 in 1975. Carried it as my back up and off duity for years. I put thousands of Hot rounds through it, including 110Gr. Super-Vel (Sp) ammo through it. Never had a problem..

Is shooting extra hot ammo necessary, not really but it's nice to know you can.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

I asked Jeff Cooper about swapping my 3 inch Model 36 for the then new 3 inch Charter Bulldog .44. He said he wasn't impressed by the Bulldog and recommended a blistering .38 load with a 158 grain SWC over quite a load of Unique (not saying how much). After trying the Colonel's load, I made the swap to the Bulldog!

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

 

[murphydog]

Prefix ABH is from late 1982, so a 1983 purchase makes sense.

 

[oink]

Prefix ABH is from late 1982, so a 1983 purchase makes sense.

OK, thanks a lot. Sounds about right. And am I correct then in understanding it really is a no-dash as indicated inside the crane?

I had a stainless CA 38 before that but the one I had would lock up as soon as you fired a few rounds so I dumped it and paid up for the Smith. I still may try a Bulldog 44 someday.

The Smith has been a reliable gun and went through many qualifications in years past but I don't really use it much now. It usually is loaded with shot shells as a less lethal option so I don't have to shoot to kill. Don't panic! Just kidding. I get rattle snakes and cottonmouths on occasion and my model 60 with my hand loaded shells using the Speer caps work great at 5' to 6'. A speedloader of the HPs stay with it.

 

[Pisgah]

The +P bugabear is way overrated. Back in the '50's, Elmer Keith fired thousands of .38-44 rounds through a Chief's Special. These were way more than +P, closer to a .357 Mag, and the little revolver showed no damage or even noticeable wear.

Remember, if you ask them S&W will tell you not to fire .38 target wadcutter loads in a Model 36 if they're handloads. If it doesn't have ".38 +P" stamped on the barrel, they're going to say "No" to +P, but their answer has nothing to do with safety.

 

[AZretired]

I had a M-60 I bought new in 1977 and carried off-duty and as a backup until I traded it for a new M-640 in the late 90's. My standard carry load was the +P 158 LSWCHP and I put hundreds of rounds through my M-60 and it was just as tight the day I sold as the day I bought it.