686+ 4" NO RIFLING!! Please help

[Muley Gil]

I was in Afghanistan when the Afghan police were being issued pistols. These were 9mm S&W Sigmas. I was the training supervisor at the Kunduz regional training center (RTC). I had trained the Afghan police firearms instructors with AMD 65s (Hungarian AK 47s with a folding stock) and knew how well each of them could shoot. Another American police advisor came to me and told me that one of the instructors was having trouble with pistol training. Later, the advisor came to me and showed me the barrel from the Sigma that that particular instructor had been shooting. It had one shallow land. No wonder it was printing keyholes on the target. We gave the Afghan instructor a different Sigma and he was back to shooting 90s.

So, while not common, smooth bore handguns do happen on occasion.

 

[500SNW]

Making the wild assumption that the OP's gun has no rifling...my question is what exactly does it have? A "barrel blank?" It most certainly does NOT have a smoothBORE. A "smoothbore" is just that...it is a smooth, non-rifled bore which has been intentionally drilled out and machined to a precise diameter for a specific caliber bullet or shotshell gauge. The fact that the OP"s barrel might lack rifling - due to manufacturer error...does not a smoothbore make. So back to my question - what is it called? Barrel blank?

 

[4506517]

Sooooooo...............

Did we know if the OP made it home to take those pictures?

I would like to see what it looks like.

I am in no way saying S & W is incapable of mistakes.

 

[Wise_A]

Back when S&Ws were P&R, no one complained in the online forums about quality issues, so there must not have been as many factory booboos!

I see what you did there. I'll have you know I speak three languages, sir: English, obscenity, and sarcasm.

I'll raise you: Back when the barrels were pinned, the master craftsmen who built them would never let a canted barrel out the door!

 

[Doug M.]

I see what you did there. I'll have you know I speak three languages, sir: English, obscenity, and sarcasm.

*
Ah, a fellow scholar of useful modern languages.

 

[rwsmith]

Brings up a question....

How does S&W get rifling into the bore these days. Do they still pull a button through, Is EDM used? I guess I'm asking if there is a possible way that rifling can be omitted? Could somebody pick up an unrifled barrel and install it? I thought the barrel was screwed on, torqued, then indexed with a padded wrench .

 

[shocker]

How does S&W get rifling into the bore these days.

Rimfires are cut, AFAIK everthing else (except PC guns?) since the mid 1990's has been ECM machined.
It is amazing that guns that are test fired at the factory can be sent out with such an obvious flaw.

 

[DonD]

Daryl17,

I can not say you are wrong but are you familiar with the polygonal appearance that some of S&W's electrical chemical machined (ECM) rifled barrels have? We have had multiple threads started by members who thought those normal barrels had no rifling. While S&W's old broach cut rifling had square corners, at best their ECM rifling has rounded corners. The ones that look polygonal can be mistaken for having no rifling. They are legal and with loads the gun likes shoot well .

This is my thought. The EDM rifling looks worn out compared to conventional cut rifling and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way they shoot.

I'm pretty sure my 500 Mags are EDM guns and they're certainly very accurate. Don

 

[Frogwalking]

I once owned a High Standard .22 mag.that had been reamed out to shoot shot cartridges for snakes. The absence of rifling made no difference in accuracy, as there was none to begin with. Slug your barrel and mike the slug. If the resulting slug is land diameter, return it to S&W and they will fix it free. If the slug is groove diameter, however, someone has reamed out the rifling. If you want to shoot snakes at close range; you are in business. If, however, you want accuracy at longer range, you have a problem.

 

[deadin]

If someone has reamed out the rifling in a handgun, you have more of a problem than just accuracy......

 

[RGVshooter]

This is my thought. The EDM rifling looks worn out compared to conventional cut rifling and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way they shoot.

I'm pretty sure my 500 Mags are EDM guns and they're certainly very accurate. Don

Hmmm. And all this time you guys mentioned EDM. I thought you were talking about "Electronic Dance Music".

Ya learn something new everyday

 

[sigp220.45]

These "ATF gonna getcha" threads always make me laugh.

For 17 of my 25 years in the FBI I worked violent crimes on Indian Reservations in Montana, Idaho, and New Mexico. Felonies were prosecuted by the United States Attorney's Office, and they had an agreement with ATF that while we could tack on gun charges to assault and murder cases, stand-alone gun charges (illegal gun found during traffic stop, felon in possession with no other charge) would be referred to ATF.

The first time I tried it was when a tribal cop found a sawed off shotgun during a vehicle stop. It wasn't even close to legal - a 12 gauge single shot with a 10" barrel and the stock cut off just behind the pistol grip. I wrote up a referral complete with pictures. It was a good stop, the gun was on the passenger seat, and the driver was the only one in the car. No charges ever filed.

The same thing happened on the next three or four. I called on a few of them, and got vague answers about priorities, but "keep 'em coming".

The last one I took was a Marlin Model 60 that had the barrel (and magazine tube) sawed off just forward of the fore-end, the stock sawed off at the grip, and electrical tape applied randomly. I just threw it off a dam into a lake.

I hope the OP checks back in.

 

[ejjeff]

Hope the OP can post a pic or at least let us know outcome?

 

[deadin]

I don't know.... I see a difference between "being legal" and "getting away with it". Personally, I prefer being legal......

 

[Spawndn72]

I am placing my bets on ECM rifling. I have a model 60 that, when clean, you cant hardly tell it has any rifling at all. When dirty, the rifling magically appears.

 

[black1970]

Why have nice pre-lock Smith prices gone through the the roof, especially P&R? This thread addresses the subject. As my grandparents used to say-they don't makem like they used to.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, Daryl17! Get the Tapatalk app for your smartphone and you can post and attach pictures with ease. Take a look at this example.

You may want to take another look.

 

[S&W Rover]

Bueller? Bueller?

I'd like to see the pictures.

 

[Tom S.]

This is my thought. The EDM rifling looks worn out compared to conventional cut rifling and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way they shoot.

I'm pretty sure my 500 Mags are EDM guns and they're certainly very accurate. Don

S&W doesn't do any barrels using EDM. EDM stands for Electrical Discharge Machine, which in essence uses electricity to burn away pieces of metal. There are two types of machines, one that uses wire to impart the electrical discharge, and one that uses a piece of carbon cut to the contour needed. It's a neat process, but not one that I believe (it's been over 24 years since I ran either type of EDM) can be used for cutting the grooves in barrels.

S&W uses ECM. ECM stands for Electrochemical Machining. From what I understand (I've no experience using one) electrolyte are forced under pressure through a cathode and cuts/burns the metal away.

Both processes, depending on speed of the machine, can leave a finish far smoother than the old button broaching method.

 

[k22fan]

These "ATF gonna getcha" threads always make me laugh. [...]

In defense of the long arm of the law is "gonna getcha" paranoia I've posted in other threads, it was mostly answering the question should the O.P. buy a gun with its serial number obliterated for 5 cents less than it would other wise cost. I always linked Washington's law that writes possession of a gun with a defaced serial number or model name is prima facia (no doubt spelled wrong) evidence that the possessor removed the manufacturer's stamp. With thousands of legal guns for sale every hour why should they?

However, I did not even read most of this thread. I only skimmed replies far enough to determine they were commenting on the legalities of illegal guns then skipped them. A grizzly bursting into the O.P.'s living room and devouring him is more likely than his being prosecuted.

On the other hand, a US attorney might be trading the bear's co-operation for a plea bargain ...