686+ vs 627 Pro

[pgb205]

@franzas. I'm sure I will still buy their ammo, just not for a revolver . I've been using Tula for as long as I had MP 9 and never single issue EVER.

It's just a bummer that every time a short stroke happens I do end up 'losing' a round, as when I pull trigger again cylinder rotates to the next cartridge.

 

[Max07]

Why do people shoot steel cased ammo in quality firearms?

 

[revolver686]

I've been plinking with Herters 158gr FMJ .38SP & .357 for about 3-4000 rounds in my 686's and Rossi lever rifle. It's been flawless for me. Shoots good groups to POA, and clean burning.

I've been running Sellier & Bellot 158 gr. .357 in my Rossi Model 92 because it cycled so slick, but it's kind of hard to find around here and it's more expensive than most brands. I didn't realize until you brought this up that Herters Ammo was manufactured by S & L. I'm not far from Cabela's, it looks like I'll have to give the Herters a try.

 

[bigwheelzip]

I've been running Sellier & Bellot 158 gr. .357 in my Rossi Model 92 because it cycled so slick, but it's kind of hard to find around here and it's more expensive than most brands. I didn't realize until you brought this up that Herters Ammo was manufactured by S & L. I'm not far from Cabela's, it looks like I'll have to give the Herters a try.

Yes, it's been made by them. A Cabela's credit card bring occasional 20% off discounts that can be combined with the occasional 20% sales on Herters, for OTD price of $14 for .38SP and $16 for .357, depending on your local sales tax.

Order on-line for free store pick-up, to be assured you get the quantity you want, during the sale.

 

[gman51]

I have not had any problems ejecting any ammo in my 627-5 pro.
Your saying the cylinder also was hard to turn tells me the steel casings are junk. Possibly the head thickness could be to thick also and the casing just below the head could be bulged a bit also.
I had a bunch of bad factory reloads that had the above problems. Three different guns had problems locking up the cylinder movement because the head thickness was causing head to be tight against the recoil plate. Some rounds didn't even want to seat fully in the cylinder because of the bulged cases.
The reloader replaced all of the ammo including what I had shot. I did have a few from the replacement bunch that still gave me problems.

I have never used the moon clips with my 627. When I first got my 627 I wasn't impressed with the trigger. I lubed the internal parts and I also backed off the tension screw just a tad bit. I know some say don't do that but if Miculek does it then I am a go with it. I have had no light strikes or problems with it since. The trigger is IMO much better than my Python in DA. I actually shoot my 627 better than I can my Python.
I shoot 38 spl so much that I have started reloading my own now.
Personally I feel the 627 is a bit muzzle heavy and though the mat finish is nice looking I would rather have it in polished SS. I have thought about polishing it but I doubt I will do it. I have never shot or even held a 686 for comparison. I bought the 627 for the 8 shot cylinder. I seriously doubt I will ever carry this 627 because it is a big chunk of steel.

 

[pgb205]

it's definitelly confirmed as ammo problem by emailing tulla support. They are aware of the issue. I bought 3 other brands and didn't have single issue since.

I have not had any problems ejecting any ammo in my 627-5 pro.
Your saying the cylinder also was hard to turn tells me the steel casings are junk. Possibly the head thickness could be to thick also and the casing just below the head could be bulged a bit also.
I had a bunch of bad factory reloads that had the above problems. Three different guns had problems locking up the cylinder movement because the head thickness was causing head to be tight against the recoil plate. Some rounds didn't even want to seat fully in the cylinder because of the bulged cases.
The reloader replaced all of the ammo including what I had shot. I did have a few from the replacement bunch that still gave me problems.

I have never used the moon clips with my 627. When I first got my 627 I wasn't impressed with the trigger. I lubed the internal parts and I also backed off the tension screw just a tad bit. I know some say don't do that but if Miculek does it then I am a go with it. I have had no light strikes or problems with it since. The trigger is IMO much better than my Python in DA. I actually shoot my 627 better than I can my Python.
I shoot 38 spl so much that I have started reloading my own now.
Personally I feel the 627 is a bit muzzle heavy and though the mat finish is nice looking I would rather have it in polished SS. I have thought about polishing it but I doubt I will do it. I have never shot or even held a 686 for comparison. I bought the 627 for the 8 shot cylinder. I seriously doubt I will ever carry this 627 because it is a big chunk of steel.

 

[Wee Hooker]

Problem Solved.
Lesson Learned?
Feed it right and it will be your friend forever.

 

[Dorian]

Ok. Just took a trip to the range with this gun (after having cleaned and lubricated as instructed in the manual). Fired off 20 rounds of 38 sp and 357 mag by Tulammo. First cylinder went with no problems. By the second cylinder i found it difficult to eject. Third cylinder I am unable to eject spend brass at all no matter how hard I try to push down ejector rod(ie I am unable to depress it at all). You can see several shots in attached pictures. I'm not sure if something is wrong with ammo, the cylinder, something else?

Best way to deal with that if using Tulamo is to spray light film of synthetic lube in cylinder works every time.

 

[OlongJohnson]

Steel cased ammo will stop an AR 15 or many other other firearms. Most of it is pure **** for tolerance. Much of it has layered cases which will gum up ANYTHING it touches when the gun gets hot. Most any knowledgeable gun people refuse to use it in anything but sloppy chambered firearms such as an AK.

Unfortunately, it appears autocorrect destroyed the key word in the only really useful reply in this thread so far. Steel cases are "lacquered" to prevent rusting. They run OK in an AK because the 7.62x39 cartridge is significantly tapered. Put them in an AR as .223 or 5.56x45, and when the chamber gets hot, the straighter wall of the free-world cartridge gets stuck in the chamber because the lacquer is softened and sticky. It's especially bad if the lacquer builds up in the chamber and leaves behind a layer.

So, transferring this knowledge to a revolver: It has a completely straight-walled case. Unlike a semi-auto pistol, where each round is only in the chamber long enough to be loaded from the magazine and then fired, the cases sit in the warm/hot cylinder the entire time from when they are loaded until the attempt to extract them. They don't move relative to the cylinder that whole time, so the lacquer is just melting in, sticking them quite effectively, as you found out. The straight walls mean that, rather than simply lifting away, you're trying to shear the entire stuck area at once.

So the problem isn't because the ammo is "cheap." Run brass-cased ammo that's nearly as cheap in the gun, and you can expect to not have the issue. The problem is that the lacquered steel case technology is particularly unsuited to use in a revolver. It's kinda like putting the wrong tires on a car. They don't fit, not because they're cheap, but because they're the wrong tires.

Addressing the post directly above this, it's generally not good to have lube on the outside of your ammo or the inside of your chamber. Normally, the expansion of the case against the chamber walls is a yuuuuge part of holding the case in the chamber until the pressure decreases. If there is lube present, the case can't grip the walls of the chamber, so much greater forces are applied to the bolt face (and frame, on a revolver) and lockup hardware.

A more troubling issue with steel-case ammo is that it usually has a bimetal jacket, meaning a mild-steel jacket with a few thousandths of an inch of copper plated onto it. AR and AK barrels are cheap and easy to swap out, so the savings in ammo can more than make up for wearing out a barrel a bit faster. But I wouldn't want to bet on the same calculus for an S&W revolver barrel.

 

[typetwelve]

I had the same issue myself.

Back in Dec, I decided that after years apart from the .357 magnum, it was time to get back in the saddle.

When I arrived at the dealer, they had not only a 627 "pro", but also a 686 Plus 7-rd, and a 686 SSR 6 rd. I laid them all out, handled them all, and int he end, I chose the 627.

I know the 627 is a "larger" firearm, but it sure doesn't feel that way compared to the other two. The SSR weighs in at 38.5oz, the 686 Plus at 38.2, and the 627 at 40.7 oz.

I immediately dropped the Plus because I didn't want the 5" barrel. It then came down tot he 627 and the SSR. It didn't take long for me to side with the 627. The size of the thing coupled with the 8 round cylinder really stood it out from the SSR. To add to that, they were the exact same price.

Long story short, I got it home, noticed the barrel crown was ****, and sent it back to S&W for rework. A month later, I got it back, then it went over to my gunsmith for internal rework.

Quick story on that, the DA pull on the thing felt "off". When I took the pistol to my gunsmith, without even touching the thing, the first thing out of his mouth was "I've had to rework quite a few new S&W revolvers lately, every time it's the hand, it's out of timing and fighting the ratchet at the end of the DA pull."

He pulled my pistol out of the box, played with it a few times, and confirmed that to be the case. He handed it back, had me DA pull the trigger telling me to pay close attention to the last 50% of the travel, had me open the cylinder, fake the cylinder close, and pull the trigger again sans cylinder. Huge difference. The pull was consistent throughout the cycle with no ramp up at the end.

I had him rework it but not to the point where it couldn't fire factory loads. He also smoothed out the trigger face. The DA pull is now buttery smooth and the SA pull, nothing something I use all that often, it silly light.

I got it back (again), replaced the lousy front sight with a hi-viz (much, MUCH) better, and replaced those awful Hogue finger grove grips with some Hogue smooth grips:

S&W N Round Butt Rubber Conversion No Finger Grooves Monogrip | Hogue Inc.

Since then I've shot the snot out of the thing. I've had it to the range every week for the past 4 weeks straight. I couldn't be happier with the final product.

 

[Cellar Hound]

Potato Chips

either gun would be in 4 inch model.

This will probably be the only revolver that I would own, that's why I'm splitting hairs trying to pick a better one of the two.

It's like the old Lay's potato chip commercials...... "Betcha can't eat just one".

I would suggest two things:

1. Pick the one that feels the best in your hand
2. Buy a gun safe that will hold several

 

[typetwelve]

It's like the old Lay's potato chip commercials...... "Betcha can't eat just one".

I would suggest two things:

1. Pick the one that feels the best in your hand
2. Buy a gun safe that will hold several

Bingo.

I still need another .44 magnum. I used to own a Super Redhawk but landed up selling it off. I haven't had a .44 since.

I'll change that here sooner or later.