777 crash at SFO

[JJEH]

I just feel sorry for the victims. Hope they figure out what the error was and make it never happen again.

 

[Hobie1]

To the rated pilots: does the 777 have an audible warning such as a "Bitchin' Betty" saying something to the effect "Stall...Stall"? Or is that Hollywood stuff?
It appears that they were in a pretty steep Angle of Attack just prior to the tail strike, and pilots are taught to lower the nose, add power, and get some airspeed back to recover from a stall but they didn't have that luxury as it would appear.

I, for one, am interested in the full after incident report by the NTSB which hopefully be aided by the still living flight crew.

To date, Boeing rolled the first 777 into service back in '95 and this is only the third hull loss, 2 due to accidents and 1 other non crash related IIRC. Pretty darn good service record in my opinion.

Hobie

 

[pppilot]

As a working and current Corporate Pilot flying state of the art jet equipment I have to agree with Mike7.62. There was WAY too much talent in that cockpit for this to be a simple pilot error.
There are questions in my mind about the auto throttle system in that particular aircraft.

 

[Smithsrevenge]

It was reported today that the initial approach was started from 50% higher and 50 % faster than normal.The autopilot and coupler were not used and it was hand flown from some reports.This is the perfect set up for problems as the first reaction is to pull off the power and hang out all your "garbage"to kill speed and altitude .The problem, is not realizing you have overdone it just prior to final when you have slowed too much and misjudged distance .You will land short,one would hope on a hard overrun.Unfortunately his "overrun" consited of water.I saw even a few fighter jocks do the same thing years ago.This all is caused by not deciding to "go around" when things don't look right.This was probably complicated by the transition from water to land and inexperience in the 777.Very unfortunate.

Pilot should have waived off and come around again at the correct glide slope then . Very tragic.

 

[Smithsrevenge]

To the rated pilots: does the 777 have an audible warning such as a "Bitchin' Betty" saying something to the effect "Stall...Stall"? Or is that Hollywood stuff?
It appears that they were in a pretty steep Angle of Attack just prior to the tail strike, and pilots are taught to lower the nose, add power, and get some airspeed back to recover from a stall but they didn't have that luxury as it would appear.

I, for one, am interested in the full after incident report by the NTSB which hopefully be aided by the still living flight crew.

To date, Boeing rolled the first 777 into service back in '95 and this is only the third hull loss, 2 due to accidents and 1 other non crash related IIRC. Pretty darn good service record in my opinion.

Hobie

The 777 most certainly has a bitchin betty. However you dont even need one to notice that your stalling. Your turbine RPM's will fluctuate a lot, your altimeter and airspeed indicator will drop and you will actually feel like your falling. Honestly these guys with all their experience should have been able to land this by instrument only. They were too hot and too high above the GS . I dont get it. most pilots land long when there are issues, hence so many after-runway accidents....not that short. Will be interesting to see what happened.

 

[BillyMagg]

As a working and current Corporate Pilot flying state of the art jet equipment I have to agree with Mike7.62. There was WAY too much talent in that cockpit for this to be a simple pilot error.
There are questions in my mind about the auto throttle system in that particular aircraft.

Stephen Trimble posted an article on the Flightglobal websight 16 hrs ago that the auto throttles were armed but not engaged, the target airspeed was 137knts, the auto throttles were found in the armed, but not "engaged" position on the accident aircraft by investigators. Initially they were high, and set the autopilot for a 1500fpm decent, 3Xs the standard rate of 500fpm, this would have likely reduced thrust to flight idle. The Captain and his check pilot were under the assumption that they had engaged the auto throttle, at 500ft Lee Jeong-min, the check pilot told Lee Gang Guk, the Captain to pull up, about this time the aircraft yawed off the centerline, and the pilots lost track of the rapidly deteriorating airspeed.

I fully appreciate the sentiment of Mike that there does seem to be a rush to get this info out there, I am assuming that the motivation is to assure the flying public that the Boeing 777 is a very safe aircraft and that this accident is the result of mistakes by the Captain and F/O to fly the airplane. The flying community jumps on these incidents/particularly those who operate similar aircraft because we do not want to replicate this experience. I fully respect how hard both of you gentlemen have worked to attain the talent and skill to become aircraft commanders, I even admire your attempt to protect the valued reputation of a brother aviator, our desire to protect our brothers/sisters? may cause us to attempt to find fault elsewhere. I am a private pilot, and was an aircraft owner/operator, I am no longer current, but if finances allow I will likely purchase an older Luscombe, Cub, etc to operate under Sport Pilot category. I am an Air Force Brat, and I am quite certain what was on my Pappy's mind when I was conceived, I have worked in a small general aviation repair shop, and have loved flying since I had a conscious memory, I sat for many hours looking through the dash-1 for the C-130.

So I will repeat my thank-you for your service and contribution, most people have no idea of the often superhuman feats of the aviator, nor of his dedication and love of flying, so keep up the good work gentlemen. billymagg

 

[Mike7.62]

Thanks Billy. All that I'm asking is that everyone wait until the facts available have all been investigated until blame is laid. It very well could have been pilot error, but until all is known and investigated, I am loathe to call it such.

 

[BillyMagg]

Thanks Billy. All that I'm asking is that everyone wait until the facts available have all been investigated until blame is laid. It very well could have been pilot error, but until all is known and investigated, I am loathe to call it such.

Thank you as well Mike, I was basically responding to other posters, I am also loathe to cast doubt on the very fine 777, it is a wonder that anyone lived through this, and is testimony to the many wonders of modern aerodynamics and FCS. I am aware of the throttle rollback issue, and I share those concerns as well. I would love it if you would join us on the Sino Defense forum, we have several engineers, pilots, and there is some excellent discussion on the J-20, Y-20, and the Varyag that has been rebuilt as the Liaoning, the PLAN CV and they are beginning flight ops with the J-15 a Chinese Flanker. I did note in my post the outstanding safety record of US, and European airlines, it is simply astounding to me given the sheer volume of flight ops, in all types of weather conditions. Were you a Naval Aviator? or did you earn your wings as a civilian?? Thanks for sharing and I hope that maybe you would fill in a few blanks that we have regarding the ELS and autothrottles. My brother Jim sent me some pix of the mill damn at Walter Hill, TN, made me homesick for Tennessee, I just love the Stones River. billy

 

[Mike7.62]

Thank you as well Mike, I was basically responding to other posters, I am also loathe to cast doubt on the very fine 777, it is a wonder that anyone lived through this, and is testimony to the many wonders of modern aerodynamics and FCS. I am aware of the throttle rollback issue, and I share those concerns as well. I would love it if you would join us on the Sino Defense forum, we have several engineers, pilots, and there is some excellent discussion on the J-20, Y-20, and the Varyag that has been rebuilt as the Liaoning, the PLAN CV and they are beginning flight ops with the J-15 a Chinese Flanker. I did note in my post the outstanding safety record of US, and European airlines, it is simply astounding to me given the sheer volume of flight ops, in all types of weather conditions. Were you a Naval Aviator? or did you earn your wings as a civilian?? Thanks for sharing and I hope that maybe you would fill in a few blanks that we have regarding the ELS and autothrottles. My brother Jim sent me some pix of the mill damn at Walter Hill, TN, made me homesick for Tennessee, I just love the Stones River. billy

Yes, I was a Navy pilot for 11 years ACDU and four in the Reserves.

We love TN too, and were very happy to move here. I went to school here and always wanted to come back, and decided that it was time. My better half is from FL, and we lived there for quite a few years. Neither of us miss it at all.