9mm load book discrepancy.

[HBW1412]

I am trying to work up a load of 9mm and can't seem to find any consistant load data.

I am using 115 gr. Berry's Plated Round Nose bullets and have a keg of PowerPistol powder.

There aren't any published data with this particular combination. I know about using low to mid range jacketed combinations for plated bullets, but this is where I'm having the issue.

The 49th Lyman doesn't give any information for a 115gr. round nose.

The Sierra Edition V 4th Printing gives a range of 5.1 - 6.0 grains of PowerPistol for a 115 gr. FMJ.

The Speer Number 13 Manual gives a range of 6.2 - 6.7 grains for a 115 gr. TMJ. Speer gives a starting grain 2/10 of a grain higher than the Sierra Manuals Maximum Load.

I have never used PowerPistol powder before, so I am not familiar with its characteristics.

I am tempted to go with the Speer manual because it is for a TMJ which is Speers version of a plated bullet.

Does anyone have any experience using PowerPistol with 115gr. plated round nose bullets?

 

[HKSmith]

Power Pistol is great for 9 mm. I use 6.0 grains with the Rainier 115 grain plated bullet (similar to your Berry's bullet) and 6.6 grains with 115 grain FMJ's (Remington or Winchester). These loads are in mixed commercial brass with whatever SP primer I'm using (I've used them all over the years and really can't tell the difference), currently Remington, Wolf, and Tula.

These loads have worked well in my 9 mm pistols from S&W, CZ, Glock, and HK.

 

[PattonTime]

9mm and Power Pistol

I use 6.0 grains all the time. You can find books that will list up to about 6.7 grains but why ?
I shoot most of the time at 9 yards, I see no reason to use extra powder.
I have friends that use 5.5 and another guy says you have to use at least
6.5 grains. You know what is said about opinions though ....
If you have never used Power Pistol before you might be surprised, it is very loud and flashy.
Even six grains seems loud, but it is very safe I believe anyway.
Or it sure seems to be in my guns.
Chris

P.S. I am speaking of Berry's 115 grain bullets here.

 

[HBW1412]

Thanks for the response guys. I think I'll start with 6 gr. and work up from there if I need to.

I just wonder why 6 gr. is MAX from Sierra and 2/10 gr. lower than MIN. from Speer using the same bullet.

If I didn't have both manuals I'd never know, but it seems to me that the load data should be a lot more consistent between the manuals.

 

[OKFC05]

I am tempted to go with the Speer manual because it is for a TMJ which is Speers version of a plated bullet.

I disaree with this assumptiion (that TMJ and plated bullets are equivalent) and agree with the others that about 6 gr is all you need for a plated 115gr 9mm load using Power Pistol.

I tried it, but settled on Titegroup, which only needs about 4 gr to make minor power for IDPA and USPSA, and gives less blast and flash. HP38/Win 231 also works well and is popular in 9mm.

The primary purpose of Power Pistol is high-performance jacketed loads, but some do use it toned down a bit in competition with good results.

 

[tomklra14]

Just an FYI. I used 5.8gr Power Pistol with Berry's 124gr 9mm bullets and had some issues with the bullet plating separating when fired in my Glock 17. I dropped down to 5.3gr Power Pistol.

 

[mikld]

Start with the lowest load, you can always go up. Different bullet and powder manufacturers will prolly use different bullets and test equipment and even PSI vs CUP when testing; equals different data. What I did is find a jacketed bullet of similar shape and weight and use a starting load (I used Hornady 124 gr. XTP starting data for Berry's 124 gr plated. Shot good, no feed or ejection probs. Can work from there if I choose). Can't go wrong with that...

 

[HBW1412]

I disaree with this assumptiion (that TMJ and plated bullets are equivalent) and agree with the others that about 6 gr is all you need for a plated 115gr 9mm load using Power Pistol.

You are right about them not being the same, but TMJ bullets just have a slightly thicker plating, but not by much. I treat them almost exactly the same as a plated bullet.

I ended up going to 6.3 gr. of Power Pistol and don't see any signs of the plating seperating. I started with 6 gr. but found it to be a little dirty, but 6.3 gr. cleaned it up and the accuracy seems pretty good.

With 6.3 gr. I'm getting a 2.5" group at 25 yards with a pistol rest. That's good enough for me with this particular gun.

This is a picture of the gun I'm loading this round for. It's a Springfield Armory 1911-A1 with the Galco VHS Shoulder System Holster.

 

[mikld]

BTW; a plated bullet uses a thin copper wash/plating whereas a jacketed bullet uses a thick, brass, copper alloy much harder and stronger than copper...

 

[Jamie]

I'm using Power Pistol, because of the short throat in one of my guns, my OAL for 115gr LRN Space Coast Bullets is 1.095", a bit shorter than most specs I had first read. Using 5.1 gr I'm averaging almost 1100fps on those. I'm also messing around with some 124gr Precision Delta JHP and some 125gr Bayou Bullets which are coated LRN. The Bayou Bullets allowed me to load at 1.130", 5.3gr PP produced an average of 1079fps.

 

[dwpmusic]

I'm just starting out in the world of reloading. I'm finding what you are talking about very frustrating. I'll try to keep on learing.

 

[mikld]

I'm just starting out in the world of reloading. I'm finding what you are talking about very frustrating. I'll try to keep on learing.

"The ABCs of Reloading" is a good source of info/basics of reloading...

 

[dwpmusic]

Got it, and you're very correct, it's an excellent book.

 

[Jamie]

I'm just starting out in the world of reloading. I'm finding what you are talking about very frustrating. I'll try to keep on learing.

I'm fairly new to it, it IS an inexact 'science'. Different books, different powder, bullet manufacturers call for different things. Then if you get a 'out of the box' situation, what rules do you follow? What I've found is that sometimes you need to put it all together and take an average, back off a bit in the name of safety and have at it.

 

[dwpmusic]

Kinda the way I see it too. Lots to learn but hopefully lots of fun to have. Heading to the range today.

 

[noylj]

Load using 115gn cast lead bullet data. All loading data is only applicable to the fun and components used and is only a guideline for your gun and your components.
Using those plated bullets (I find them to be poor substitutes for good cast or jacketed bullets), you can work up a load to the mid-range of jacketed data.
If you don't know how to watch for pressure signs, do a 'web search.
ALWAYS start at the lowest starting load you can find using AT LEAST two independent sources (i.e., don't use the Hornady #7 and #8, they aren't independent).
For a given weight of bullet ALL lead bullets use the same data (but the COL varies and one must start at the starting load) and ALL jacketed bullets use the same data (again, the COL varies...).
If you are using a frangible or monolithic (all copper) bullet, don't use load data for any other type of bullet.

 

[gwpercle]

Allways err on the side of caution. Start with a lower charge and if it feeds and ejects from your gun you can adjust from there for accuracy. You don't want to load them so hot they batter you gun . Look for proper functioning first then adjust the charge for accuracy . The starting loads in manuals are usually safe, notice what the maximum loads are and do not exceed . A lot depends on your gun, a lot of 9mm's have been made over the years from 08 Lugers and WWII P38's to the new S&W's of 2012. Could be a lot of descrepancies we see is due to trying to publish data safe in all the different firearms.

Gary

 

[mikld]

Above all, use common sense. Experience is the best teacher and it won't be long before all the terminology, methods, tools make sense to you. Like stated above "...err on the side of caution".

Go slow, be safe, and enjoy.

 

[PC Geek Shooter]

I've found the same thing. I wanted to triple check where the Xtreme 147gr RN bullets I got fell into. Xtreme's website says: "We add 4 to 6 thousandths more plating than brand X." Which seems to me that they could be around the 7.5 thousands mark compared to the Berry's bullets around 3.5 thousandths. So I'm leaning more towards midrange of the TMJ 147gr in the Lyman 49th manual, but it looks like you might be able to go a little over midrange for that.

However, I'm going to go sub minor with the 147 gr with #13 springs for sure and hopefully get down to making the #11 ones work. So I'll probably eventually end up in #2 alloy department anyways.

But I'm very, very new to this. Reading for months, but finally did my first 2 live rounds at 2.8 grains, or 2.9 grains. However one of them was .4 gr higher using the same headstamp, all other tested powder measurements of same headstamps were only .1 gr difference up until that point. I have like 30 others I've put together with the primers and bullets to figure out the OAL, but those I'll probably fully trash too. Can't get the Hornady bullet puller die to work right, and the Dillon 650 toolhead is very cramped to switch out dies. I do love that RCBS Lock-Out Die though and finally got the Hornady Bullet Feeder Die to work with the .356 bullets.

I'm hoping when the Lyman 50th edition comes out (whenever that is) they'll have plated bullets tested for the most popular cartridges people are using them for. For 9mm, maybe to save time they can just do 124gr and 147gr ones. By doing those two, people should be able to figure out where they should go for 115gr plated ones after looking at the surrounding fmj and #2 alloy ones for 124gr or 147gr compared to the plated ones. Of course would be nice if they did all 3 for 9mm. Just noticed they don't have the 115gr listed for the #2 alloy, but you get the idea.

 

[TSQUARED]

Aside freom the muzzle blast and fireball exiting teh front end of the barrel there is nothing wrong with Power Pistol - it meters very uniformly. Personaly I prefer a faster powder such as Bullseye W-231 or the slower WSF.