9mm non-Coke bottle carbide sizing die

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Does anyone make a 9x19mm "Luger" carbide sizing die that does not produce a Coke-bottle shape in the brass case? It would not have to be carbide, buy any hard, smooth die that does not require case lube? I seem to recall a TiN "titanium nitrate?) treated die at one time but cannot find any information on it.

My Redding standard die is perfect; I just want to be able to skip the case lube and its removal.
 
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I’d be a bit leery of trying to escape using lube in a TiN-coated steel die, but in something as small and tapered like a 9mm Luger, it might work. Does Hornady make one? Alternatively, would it be possible to use some sort of dry lube on your 9mm cases? I’m assuming you clean and tumble them before loading? Just a thought.
 
Some Hornady "Custom Grade" dies are Titanium Nitride. Can't say if their 9x19 dies are or not, but they most likely will size ammunition to look exactly like their Tungsten Carbide dies.

How ammunition appears when re-loaded depends more on how you use the dies rather than the dies themselves. In my experience teaching re-loading too many over-do the various stages resulting in odd looking ammunition. Die adjustment is the secret to good ammunition, not the dies themselves.

Speaking of lubricating cases for sizing. The secret is to not over-lubricate them. This reduces the need to remove the case lube after sizing! Cleaning off lube is the same as case polishing. No one thought it was necessary before companies began to make case polishing equipment, we merely wiped the cases to get grit off of them before sizing to protect the dies, then loaded and shot them again! When case polishing equipment was introduced in the early 1970s all-of-a-sudden people began to believe polishing was necessary! It wasn't then and still isn't! Tarnished cases shoot just like bright, shiny ones!

If you are really concerned about cleaning off lube after sizing then try this. Lube and size the cases, them throw them in your polisher with ground corn cob. Voila! No more lube on the cases!! Then expand and complete loading. Easy, isn't it!:D
 
Speaking of lubricating cases for sizing. The secret is to not over-lubricate them. This reduces the need to remove the case lube after sizing! Cleaning off lube is the same as case polishing. No one thought it was necessary before companies began to make case polishing equipment, we merely wiped the cases to get grit off of them before sizing to protect the dies, then loaded and shot them again! When case polishing equipment was introduced in the early 1970s all-of-a-sudden people began to believe polishing was necessary! " It wasn't then and still isn't! Tarnished cases shoot just like bright, shiny ones!"

Actually, I find the tarnished cases have better "grab" on the chamber wall and show a more rounded primer edge after firing. Having said that, I must admit that I too have been smitten with SCS (Shinny Case Syndrome) and we must do something with all those corncobs...
 
Hornady made the "Titanium Coated" dies and I bought a set .

They do not work as "advertised" and you almost have to use case lube or resizing becomes very difficult ...
I went back to an old steel CH sizer ... it didn't over size and gave me a better tapered case when done .

I don't know if Hornadt even sells these anylonger ... but if you get a set ... plan on using case lube .
Avoid Lee Carbide dies at all costs ... they undersize way to much and you get a real Wonky Looking case !
Gary
 
Warren,I am using a Redding carbide with good results, not sure about coke bottle shape but I have not experienced anything like that.
 
Gotta go with the die adjustments comment above plus your brass. I was adjusting seating depth last night and got a case that bulged a bit on one side. But, it was a ???? make case that required noticeably more muscle to resize than WW/Federal.

In 9 mm I've always gone with RCBS TC dies as they originated the 9mm TC die.

So long as it fits in the cartridge gauge* and feeds/fires, I've never been all that worried about appearance. Although shiny is good.

* Having used a wide variety of 9 mm brass from all over the world, the specs on the 9 mm case rim seem to vary more than most. I like the Lyman 9 mm/.38 Super shell holder for that reason. Also, so long as at least half the case rim thickness goes in the gauge, it'll feed & fire. The case rim doesn't go in the chamber.
 
In the late 70's/early 80's Hornady/Pacific dies were made to the MINIMUM case size standards. the cases were sized to the minimum diameter! All my 38/357's from those dies look like Coke Bottles. I now use RCBS Carbide dies from the 90's and my ammo looks factory ammo.

I always called it "Wasp Wasted". It holds less powder too! But I never had any feeding problems in lever action carbines.

Ivan
 
I may have missed something. What exactly is a Coke Bottle 9mm sizing die? Or a Coke Bottle case.

“Coke Bottle” or “Wasp Waisted” cases refers to the shape and appearance the handgun cases after they have been sized with a die that contains a single carbide ring. It is the carbide ring that performs the actual sizing of the case. With only a single sizing ring in the sizing die body that ring can only be designed and manufactured at 1 diameter and that diameter will be the size that performs the primary size reduction required to give the case the neck gripping dimension.
Unfortunately because there is only a single sizing ring the whole case length (except for the solid case head) gets reduced to neck diameter. Now when a bullet is seated the case neck is stretched larger by about 2 thou. (0.002”). So now the finished cartridge has an odd look with the case neck swollen larger by bullet insertion, below the neck the body of the cases is at the reduced neck size and the solid case head is of course at the factory made size.
So with the center of the case body at this reduced size the finished cartridge looks wasp waisted or like a classic Coca Cola bottle.
The only advantage the single carbide ring sizing dies provide is to allow for skipping the case lubing step in the reloading process.
Skipping the lubing step is only an advantage to reloaders using automatic reloading machines that can manufacture several hundred cartridges per hour.
By skipping the lube, the process is speeded up in these machines. The carbide ring sizing dies was made for use in the reloading machines but anyone can use this type of sizing die in their single stage press. But those users will get funny looking ammo.
The down side disadvantage of the single ring carbide sizing dies is reduced case life from over working the case brass.
Now the reloader will be seeing case body splits as well as the usual cases mouth splits.
With annealing the whole case batch at first detection of a case split (any where) will likely salvage the rest of that case batch.

9x19 cartridge case are tapered cases, it’s the taper that make this cartridge unsuitable to be sized with a single ring carbide die.
I do use some Redding Dual Ring carbide sizing dies in 38 Spl. & 357 mag and 45 Colt but all these cases are straight wall cases so the dual ring sizing die works just as well as the old style solid steel sizer.
I still apply lube when using the dual ring dies because the Redding instructions say to lube for increased ease of sizing and less wear on brass and die.
Knowing now about single and dual ring and solid steel sizer dies my preference now is to buy solid steel, there best. Next is the dual ring.
Never again will I use first die set I purchased, a Lyman set with single ring sizer for 38 Spl/357mag.
It worked but it made funny looking ammo.
 
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Greenjoytj nailed it! A single (short) carbide ring takes out the taper in the 9mm case. Seat a bullet and the mouth increases in size to make the round look "wasp-waisted." Some companies tried to deal with this by using two carbide rings of slightly different diameter. Carbide and machining it is expensive, so smaller dual rings is presumably cheaper.

What you really want is a full length carbide insert. Not really a "ring" since the carbide insert is as long as a 9mm case. They machine in the taper inherent to the 9mm case. My 1990's RCBS carbide sizing die is built this way. It was pricey back then. I don't know if anybody makes one these days or if they're cost prohibitive. You can easily see this long insert inside the die. I'd scour the gunshows for one from years past.

Your other option is a plain steel (non-carbide) die which should be machined to address the 9mm's taper. Of course, you get to lube cases with that approach.
 
“Coke Bottle” or “Wasp Waisted” cases refers to the shape and appearance the handgun cases after they have been sized with a die that contains a single carbide ring. It is the carbide ring that performs the actual sizing of the case. With only a single sizing ring in the sizing die body that ring can only be designed and manufactured at 1 diameter and that diameter will at the size that performs the primary size reduction required to give the case the neck gripping dimension. Unfortunately because there is only a single sizing ring the whole case length (except for the solid case head) gets reduced in diameter. Now when a bullet is seated the case neck is stretched larger by about 2 thou. (0.002”). So now the finished cartridge has an odd look with the case neck swollen larger by bullet insertion, below the neck the body of the cases is at the reduced neck size and the solid case head is of course at the factory made size. So with the center of the case body at this reduced size the finished cartridge looks wasp waisted or like a classic Coca Cola bottle.
The only advantage the single carbide ring sizing dies provide is to allow for skipping the case lubing step in the reloading process.
Skipping the lubing step is only an advantage to reloaders using automatic reloading machines that can manufacture several hundred cartridges per hour. By skipping the lube, the process is speeded up in these machines. The carbide ring sizing dies was made for use in the reloading machines but anyone can use this type of sizing die in their single stage press. But those users will get funny looking ammo. The down side disadvantage of the single ring carbide sizing dies is reduced case life from over working the case brass.
Now the reloader will be seeing case body splits as well as the usual cases mouth splits.
With annealing the whole case batch at first detection of a case split (any where) will likely salvage the rest of that case batch.

9x19 cartridge case are tapered cases, it’s the taper that make this cartridge unsuitable to be sized with a single ring carbide die.
I do use some Redding Dual Ring carbide sizing dies 38 Spl. & 357 mag, 45 Colt but all these cases are straight wall cases so the dual ring sizing die works just as well as the old style solid steel sizer.
I still apply lube when using the dual ring dies because the Redding instructions say to lube for increased ease of sizing and less wear on brass and die. Knowing now about single and dual ring and solid steel sizer dies my preference is solid steel. The best, next is the dual ring. Never again will I use first die set I purchased a Lyman set with single ring sizer for 38 Spl/357mag.
It worked but it made funny looking ammo.

If reduced case life is the only problem....Then I don't see a problem with using carbide dies.

I can't imagine wearing out a 9mm case, and if you do, so what? People leave them lying on the ground. It's not like they are 357, 44 mag, 22 Hornet, etc cases.
 
Hornady made the "Titanium Coated" dies and I bought a set .

They do not work as "advertised" and you almost have to use case lube or resizing becomes very difficult ...
I went back to an old steel CH sizer ... it didn't over size and gave me a better tapered case when done .

I don't know if Hornadt even sells these anylonger ... but if you get a set ... plan on using case lube .
Avoid Lee Carbide dies at all costs ... they undersize way to much and you get a real Wonky Looking case !
Gary

Unfortunately the Lee undersizers are necessary for me for range brass pickup as my chambers are tight and they work wonderfully for this purpose.
On a side note, using heavy plated projectiles do make the rounds bulge a little at the top- i wonder if this is what OP is describing

Also my hornady Ti dies are great for pistol catridges and I dont need to use any lube except i do use NuFinish in my tumbler and the cases might be a little slick from that
 
If reduced case life is the only problem....Then I don't see a problem with using carbide dies.

I can't imagine wearing out a 9mm case, and if you do, so what? People leave them lying on the ground. It's not like they are 357, 44 mag, 22 Hornet, etc cases.
My thoughts exactly.
All my dies are single carbide ring.
I probably have enough 9mm cases to arm a regiment if it were all loaded up, so I don't worry about any of them splitting.
As for the wasp-waisted appearance of the reloaded ammo, that doesn't bother me either. Doesn't seem to affect how it shoots.
And since it isn't even an issue with the more expensive straight-walled pistol cases, I can't see any reason why I need to be concerned about it.
 
There are many strange 9mm cases scattered across every range.
Varying wall thickness, stepped insides and who knows what else can cause some odd variations. If you load pickups, always a good idea to sort them.
I got sick of sorting out military, imported and other junk.
Just buy once fired LE brass.
And I use Lee sizing dies with no Coke problems.
 
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I have loaded lots of 9mm over the years. I expect I'll do it again in the future someday. Maybe . . . .

For now, I don't load 9mm. I shoot it primarily in plate matches where accuracy isn't paramount. Targets are big and close. The ammo has to go bang and clang a plate - quickly. Shooting fast is what matters; accuracy not so much.

So I shoot LAX remanufactured ammo and don't obsess about getting my empty cases back. LAX reman is all mixed cases and your cases get mixed with everybody else's anyway. LAX does the inspection and sorting, prices are darn near the cost of today's components, and I don't have to spend time pulling the handle on a Dillon. Candidly I'm more keen on loading accurate long range rifle ammo.

I know this doesn't address OP's post. I only mention it because I think it's worth pondering the value of loading 9mm. It might not be worth it for you. For some of us, handloading is enjoyment in itself. For others, it's a chore. Some, like me, have a foot in both buckets.
 
I have loaded lots of 9mm over the years. I expect I'll do it again in the future someday. Maybe . . . .

For now, I don't load 9mm. I shoot it primarily in plate matches where accuracy isn't paramount. Targets are big and close. The ammo has to go bang and clang a plate - quickly. Shooting fast is what matters; accuracy not so much.

So I shoot LAX remanufactured ammo and don't obsess about getting my empty cases back. LAX reman is all mixed cases and your cases get mixed with everybody else's anyway. LAX does the inspection and sorting, prices are darn near the cost of today's components, and I don't have to spend time pulling the handle on a Dillon. Candidly I'm more keen on loading accurate long range rifle ammo.

I know this doesn't address OP's post. I only mention it because I think it's worth pondering the value of loading 9mm. It might not be worth it for you. For some of us, handloading is enjoyment in itself. For others, it's a chore. Some, like me, have a foot in both buckets.

I enjoy hand loading for bolt action rifles. Tailoring a .44 Special or .45 Colt round to be a nice, light target load or a “hot” (relatively) load is kind of fun. However, 9mm Luger ammunition is cheap and plentiful. I have reloaded it on occasion, but only when it was hard to find. My feelings about .223/5.56 are similar - as long as it goes “BANG!” And cycles the action I don’t care about much more. If I want accuracy, other cartridges are much more interesting to me.
 

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