Does anyone have any experience with 9mm+P+ ammo. I am specifically interested in the Winchester 127gr Ranger T-Series, but I know there are some other offerings out there as well. Would this ammo only be suitable for steel framed handguns? How about aluminum framed or polymer framed handguns? Would you suggest a heavier recoil spring? The ammo would obviously be used for CCW, with only limited rounds for practice.
9mm+P+ Ammo
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akviper
Member
I shot around 1,500 of the Ranger 127 grain and over 500 rounds of Federal 124 grain +P+ through a H&K P7M8 with no problems. I ran several hundred of the same rounds through my Mk III High Power with no signs of trouble.
george minze
Member
I doubt you could hurt a P7M8, on the other hand I would be very stingy about using any +P+ ammo in regular forged pistols. Not just a few gunsmiths are very skeptical about +P+ in tuned pistols. I do know that a mid west PD was using 357 Sig and had some cracks in the frame of Glocks they had recently purchased and went to 9m/m. Some think it was defective ammo but Glock did exchange them for 9's I have always been told that numerous torso hits are better than one hit with high energy round. Range results have been poorer from shooting +P+ duty ammo. That is compared to regular JHP of the same caliber. More recoil than one has trained with makes for poorer performance. Practice with what you are going to carry. I have this opinion and I could be wrong. Mas is a member here maybe he could clear this up from testing, and his experience.
It's been stated often before, but bears repeating, that the meaning of +P+ is that the ammo is loaded to higher pressure than SAAMI standards. In other words, only the manufacturer knows what pressure it has for that specific load.
Therefore, generic statements about +P+ ammo and unspecified pistols are worthless.
Some +P+ is only a little over +P, and some is way over. The Winchester Ranger is not the hottest available, and some pistols with fully supported barrels and the proper spring tuning can shoot it without issue.
Thank you, everyone, for your input. More specifically, I want to try the Winchester Ranger T-Series 127gr+P+ (RA9TA) in an older West German made Sig P226. Maybe in a S&W 5906 as well. I have a working knowledge of what +P and +P+ mean, but there does seem to be some confussion between the gun and ammo manufacturers themselves at times. Sig suggests that +P+ ammo not be used in their handguns, it will void the warranty, etc. I am not worried about the warranty of a 15+ year old, used gun. But I do not want to damage the gun, or myself, either. Some manufacturers say it depends on the specific ammo, which I understand, but it is hard to find what each handgun is rated for, and what the specs are on some of the ammo. As for practicing with what I carry, and being more accurate with standard velocity ammo, that is very sound advice. I currently carry a different gun/cal completely. I just want to try a box of 9mm+P+ ammo and see how it works. But not at the expense of my personal safety or causing any damage to my firearm. If I like the results, than I would consider using one of my 9s for carry and practice more with the +P+ load. I just wanted to hear from some other guys that have tried this ammo, and their opinions. Thanks again.
Erich
Member
I've shot the RA9TA in a variety of firearms. I have decided not to use it in my Star BM or my CZ RAMI, but I was happy with it in my Hi-Power (transitional Mk II) and I love it from my Sigma (from whence it does 1400 fps). I personally would not worry about trying it in a P226, but do whatever makes you comfortable.
38-44HD45
Absent Comrade
My chopped-frame 1st Gen. Glock 17 is always loaded with WW RA9TA, and it has never been a problem. Very accurate in the old beast, and it expands and penetrates like gangbusters. I don't usually keep it in my MK III Hi-Powers, but would not fear doing so. I have shot a little through one of them. I've shot a few rounds of it in my Kimber Aegis guns, before I converted them to 9x23, just to see how much velocity I was really gaining with the conversion. (150-250 fps, depending on which 9x23 loading and what barrel length) If you look at the ballistics of NATO 124gr. 9x19, you'll discover that it is almost as hot, in terms of velocity, as 127gr. +P+ from Winchester. I wouldn't put it in a Kel-Tec PF-9 or any of the other truly tiny 9mms, but otherwise, you're more likely to run out of money buying the ammo than you are to shoot enough of it to hurt the gun much.
I carry Federal 9BPLE 115gr +P+ in my Beretta Cougar and rechambered 360J. They're very accurate and have an excellent track record. No problems with it in any of the guns I've shot it through. I use regular pressure ammo for the majority of training/practice.
The 127gr +P+ has proven to work just fine in the 5906s, 5903s and Glocks that I have shot it in. I have used this round for about as long as it's been available with no issues, but I have never fired it through anything but high quality pistols suitable for heavy use.
The last time I crono'd a new batch of 127gr I had just bought, through my G17, I was running 1325fps
The last time I crono'd a new batch of 127gr I had just bought, through my G17, I was running 1325fps
Knightrider03m
Member
Yea what he said. Mines is being used in my 9VE and M&P9c
True. It has an outstanding street record. I've run it in my M&P 9C, Kahr P9, Glock 19, and Spingfield 1911. No problems.
I also carry this load in all my 9mm.
this load chrono's 1270 from 3.5 inch barrel glock 26 to almost 1400 fps out of 5 inch beretta 92
fast plus a proven load!!!
Jason
HayesGreener
US Veteran
Use Sparingly
My Dept used the ISP Winchester +P+ load as duty loads in our 669's/6906's in late 80's/early 90's. We had around 200 of these pistols. Our training cycle was 4 qualifications per year and as much practice as you could stand. Training ammo was standard velocity but we shot up our +P+ duty loads (50 rounds) and replaced them twice a year. We had a lot of problems with the alloy frames cracking on our pistols, and ended up replacing a lot of those frames. S&W factory claimed it was the +P+ ammo causing the problem and told us to stop using it, however I don't think ISP ever experienced that problem. Whether it was the ammo or a manufacturing problem or both we never did answer definitively but there is no question +P+ puts more stressors on the gun than the same manufacturer's standard velocity ammo which equates to more wear and tear on your pistol. Based on my experience with it I wouldn't hesitate to carry it in a modern pistol as a defense or duty load, but would not feed a steady diet of it unless your firearm manufacturer says the gun is rated for it.
My Dept used the ISP Winchester +P+ load as duty loads in our 669's/6906's in late 80's/early 90's. We had around 200 of these pistols. Our training cycle was 4 qualifications per year and as much practice as you could stand. Training ammo was standard velocity but we shot up our +P+ duty loads (50 rounds) and replaced them twice a year. We had a lot of problems with the alloy frames cracking on our pistols, and ended up replacing a lot of those frames. S&W factory claimed it was the +P+ ammo causing the problem and told us to stop using it, however I don't think ISP ever experienced that problem. Whether it was the ammo or a manufacturing problem or both we never did answer definitively but there is no question +P+ puts more stressors on the gun than the same manufacturer's standard velocity ammo which equates to more wear and tear on your pistol. Based on my experience with it I wouldn't hesitate to carry it in a modern pistol as a defense or duty load, but would not feed a steady diet of it unless your firearm manufacturer says the gun is rated for it.
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