9mm vs 40 s&w

[FirebirdV8]

For me any caliber 9mm or above is good for self defense. That being said, I will carry either a 10mm (in the winter) or a 40 (during the warm months) in my semi-autos. To me whatever caliber I shoot best is the best for me.

 

[obxshooter]

I was in the Army when it transitioned from the M-14 to the M-16. I had used the M-14 in Basic and was much taken with it. I remember holding up a 5.56x45 and a 7.61x51 rounds and saying to the E-8 who was conducting the training on the M-16 "Sergeant, it's hard for me to believe this puny little thing will drop a bad guy with one shot like this 7.62..."

To which this grizzled Master Sergeant, a veteran of Korea (M-1 Garand) and two tours in Viet Nam just replied "Sir...just shoot them twice..."

I can deliver about 3 rounds of 9mm about as fast as 2 rounds of .40...either will cause significant upset to the receivee IMHO...

 

[tpd223]

That wikipedia reference is almost complete BS.

None of the service pistol caliber have enough of a temporary cavity to be of any importance,,,,,, and "hydrostatic shock" is a BS term, it doesn't exists.

The thought that one service caliber over or under penetrates is also BS. This is a matter of bullet design and construction. It sounds like someone doesn't know how to choose their bullets properly.

Recoil wise many folks find the .40 to be more "snappy" than the 9mm or .45, I know of several accomplished police shooters who traded in their .40s for .45s the first chance they got, and they did so to get a more shootable pistol.

 

[38-44HD45]

That wikipedia reference is almost complete BS.
Isn't most of Wikipedia BS?

None of the service pistol caliber have enough of a temporary cavity to be of any importance,,,,,, and "hydrostatic shock" is a BS term, it doesn't exists.

I would beg to differ. Even Marty Fackler, the king of penetration, uses the term, and there is no questioning that 125gr. .357 JHP has a significantly greater temporary cavity than .45 ACP ball. That said, I'd agree that the term is overused and frequently misapplied.

The thought that one service caliber over or under penetrates is also BS. This is a matter of bullet design and construction. It sounds like someone doesn't know how to choose their bullets properly.

Absolutely correct. Well said.

Recoil wise many folks find the .40 to be more "snappy" than the 9mm or .45, I know of several accomplished police shooters who traded in their .40s for .45s the first chance they got, and they did so to get a more shootable pistol.

Excellent observation. The difference is in part a result of the 30KPsi or so pressure levels of the .40 vs. the 16-20KPsi of .45. I rarely quote Bill Wilson, but the last I knew, he recommends 22 lb. recoil springs in 5" .40 S&W 1911s, while recommending 18.5 lbs. for .45s.

Replies following specific paragraphs above.

 

[Swabby]

Wow, I didn't realize there were so many that dispise the 40 S&W. I really liked it when I had a 4003 in the mid-90's and I like it even more since I recently purchased my M&P40. The M&P seems to recoil more straight back, with less muzzle rise, making it easier to stay on target. I would have to say both the 9mm and 40 S&W are suitable as far as practical accuracy. As far as wound channel, penetration, temporary cavity, hydrostatic shock, etc, I would think it would have more to do with bullet design than bullet diameter. I think a Winchester Ranger T-Series to the chest is going to incapacitate a human being whether the bullet starts out as .355" or .400". The key words are "to the chest". Long story short, I would go with the 40 S&W if you can shoot it accurately. If you cannot, then go with a 9mm. There are excellent personal defense loads on the market for both. One more thing. I am not a ballistics expert, but there has to be some kind of upset when a handgun bullet crashes into a body. Whatever term you prefer, it happens. I know you are talking three times the velocity and infinitely times more foot pounds of energy, but when you shoot a whitetailed deer with a 7mmMag, the exit wound in it's chest is the size of your fist. How else can a .284" diameter bullet make such a hole? Therefore, to a lesser extent, the same thing must happen with a handgun bullet. The energy scrubbed off the bullet when it enters your body must disrupt your insides somehow, doesn't it? Burst cells, blood vessles, entire organs? What makes a milk jug full of water explode into three pieces when you shoot it with a hollow point? The bullet does not expand to the size of a milk jug, but yet the jug splits. Aren't humans 90% water? Wouldn't your insides violently slosh around with the same force? Yes, no, maybe?

 

[flop-shank]

I'm convinced that energy does play a part in stopping power sometimes and the more rifle-like the cartridge is, the more often it can be a factor. I believe that better loads in calibers such as 9mm and .40 S&W energy is a factor, but not in weak calibers such as the .380 and std. pressure .38 special. Obviously the .357s street reputation came from somewhere.

 

[Engineer1911]

Used 40 S&W handguns

I have 2 629s, one is 8-3/8" barrel, the other a 5" barrel. When the same load is shot in both revolvers, the recoil is much more in the 5" barrel.

The 40 S&W is a high pressure caliber. A 5" steel semi-auto is heavy, but enjoyable to shoot with any factory load. Now put the same ammo in a 4" plastic wonder gun and wow what a blast. Shoot it 2-handed, and it still hurts fingers that are slapped/pinched by the trigger/trigger guard. This is why you see so many slightly used plastic wonders for sale.

Steel is real, and stainless is real steel.

 

[Ron In MD]

Ok we can close this thread. I've decided on either a .40 cal or .45 ACP. Either one in a commander size pistol.

 

[oldman45]

I find the .40 &W to be a little harsh on recoil, much more so than the .45acp. I have carried .357, 9mm, .40S&W and .45acp at the direction of higher powers over the last 40 yrs.

To me, the best one ever was the .357 but I will take and do carry a .45acp into the worst of the worst places one can go and do so with confidence.

As to caliber selection, go to a auto body repair shop and get a damaged car door. Mark it off in sections and shoot each caliber into those areas. You will notice the 9mm lacking in penetration and expansion. The .45acp does ok on penetration and expansion. The .357 does very well in both.

Could someone get me to go back to the .357? Not in this lifetime. I can say I would not want to go to the 9mm again either.

Again, this is just my experiences over the years at looking at gun shot wounds to people and vehicles.

 

[Ogandydancer]

I have 1 40S&W pistol & 4 9mm's. I carry the 40 everyday but on a rare occasion I will carry one of my 9's. The 40 probably has a little more oomph per bang but, I have no doubt a 9 would get the job done.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I find the .40 &W to be a little harsh on recoil, much more so than the .45acp. I have carried .357, 9mm, .40S&W and .45acp at the direction of higher powers over the last 40 yrs.

To me, the best one ever was the .357 but I will take and do carry a .45acp into the worst of the worst places one can go and do so with confidence.

As to caliber selection, go to a auto body repair shop and get a damaged car door. Mark it off in sections and shoot each caliber into those areas. You will notice the 9mm lacking in penetration and expansion. The .45acp does ok on penetration and expansion. The .357 does very well in both.

Could someone get me to go back to the .357? Not in this lifetime. I can say I would not want to go to the 9mm again either.

Again, this is just my experiences over the years at looking at gun shot wounds to people and vehicles.

Next time you do the car door bit, try Corbon DPX in 9MM. It punches a neat clean hole and does not deform.

 

[Lost Lake]

I have them all and love them all. I don't feel underpowered carrying my .380, surely not my 9mm either. But in my testing, the .40 goes through more than a 9 or 45. It has to do with diameter, velocity, and weight. Obviously a 180 grain .40 will go deeper than a 180 grain 2" flat washer. There's a lot to consider, and actually shooting into 'stuff' is the only way to compare.

What is all this nonsense about the price of .40 ammo being high? I pay $240 for 1000 rounds. That's $12 per 50 for 180 grain fmj. You guys that say ammo is expensive crack me up when you pay $20 or more for a 50 round pack. If cost is a factor buy ammo in bulk and save the money.

 

[Scrat]

personally ill use either a 9 a .40 a .357 or a .45... any one of em better then a sharp stick

 

[venomballistics]

diameter has proven a large component in effectiveness ... I pack a 45 for urban and a 44 magnum for rural based on shots Ive fired ... there are concessions that need be made in a carry piece caliber is NOT one of them

 

[Fat B]

I have them all and love them all. I don't feel underpowered carrying my .380, surely not my 9mm either. But in my testing, the .40 goes through more than a 9 or 45. It has to do with diameter, velocity, and weight. Obviously a 180 grain .40 will go deeper than a 180 grain 2" flat washer. There's a lot to consider, and actually shooting into 'stuff' is the only way to compare.

What is all this nonsense about the price of .40 ammo being high? I pay $240 for 1000 rounds. That's $12 per 50 for 180 grain fmj. You guys that say ammo is expensive crack me up when you pay $20 or more for a 50 round pack. If cost is a factor buy ammo in bulk and save the money.

Where do you buy your ammo from?

 

[Lost Lake]

Where do you buy your ammo from?

Look on Gunbroker, Hellfire ammo, Tactical Ammo, etc. Just look around. I just bought 1000 rounds of Speer Lawman 9mm for $219.

Tactical sends theirs in a really nice ammo can, but I see their price today is $253 and they want $35 to ship here.

Prices change all the time. Keep looking around.

 

[auburn2]

9mm, .357 Sig, .40S&W, .45acp .... they all seem pretty much the same.

They might be the same in penetration through ballistic Gel, but they are not the same in terms of momentum dump, size of permenant wound channel or penetration of hard barriers.

If you were only concerned with penetration in gel a 40gr Remington .22 WMR HP would probably outperform all of them.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Locally, I see more used 40's than any other caliber. Not sure but I think it's because people don't research guns before buying. Often it's their first gun. They find that they can't handle the recoil or just don't like it.

I worked part time at a gun shop for a while. Sold a lot of guns too. Most in 9MM or 45. But many new to guns wanted what the cops carry.

They should have rented first.

 

[Moonman]

Too many people purchase firearms for the wrong reasons.
Boyfriend wanted or bought, Police Departments Carry, I wanted a BIG Caliber, Trendy, Holds a lot of ammo.

Try for your HAND FIT, Rent one that fits YOU WELL and shoot it. You will in the end most probably make a much better choice.

SHOT PLACEMENT ACCURACY wins over CALIBER and CAPAICTY selection.

 

[JJEH]

Why is it I see a lot of 40 s&w guns for sale and plenty of ammo available?

Is it because the 40 s& w isn't a poplar round?

Well, there are also a lot of guns in other cal. for sale.

But anyways, I'm glad if there is plenty of ammo available. That make sure our guns don't run dry.

We have different calibers and each one has it's positive and negative sites.