A brief history lesson, please...

[Bartman3562]

Read the government is looking for a new 9mm pistol. From what I have read, S&W could enter the 5906TSW with build in rail and it would meet all the requirements. Surely smith can make them cheaper and better than Baretta does.

 

[cpeblue]

Read the government is looking for a new 9mm pistol. From what I have read, S&W could enter the 5906TSW with build in rail and it would meet all the requirements. Surely smith can make them cheaper and better than Baretta does.

Spend some time with a Beretta 92fs and you'll find it's a tough one to beat. Being a 3rd gen nut I would say a 5904tsw until you get to field stripping . I wonder how many slide locks would be lost? Not to mention broken ejectors and the other two levers . I think the 92 will be with our military for a while longer. Didn't they just order another 350,000 about 3 years ago?

 

[Jaymo]

I have no more trouble stripping/reassembling 3rd gen Smiths than I do any other auto.

Training is the solution.

The Beretta is good, but the Smith is better.
It's more durable, it fits different sized hands better, and the different grips make it fit even more.
Plus, the 5906 will feed empty brass.
Extreme feed reliability is a good thing.

 

[Jaymo]

They wanted to be able to say "Me, too."

There, under 25 words to answer why they got into a saturated market.

The world needs another 1911/AR15 maker like the USA needs another Clinton or Obama.

 

[4506517]

3rd gennies production will never come back.

I guarantee they will stop doing limited runs for agencies in the next couple of years.

Yes, there are a lot of people here that would pay $1000+ for one.......that's the problem......they're only here......on this forum.

We have rehashed this debate SO many times, I would proffer that it is one of the most debated topics on this subforum.

It isn't coming back. Yes, it stinks......it isn't profitable for them to produce them, bottom line.

End of discussion.

 

[cpeblue]

I have no more trouble stripping/reassembling 3rd gen Smiths than I do any other auto.

Training is the solution.

The Beretta is good, but the Smith is better.
It's more durable, it fits different sized hands better, and the different grips make it fit even more.
Plus, the 5906 will feed empty brass.
Extreme feed reliability is a good thing.

I am addicted to 3rd gens but I don't let it blind me to all other guns. Buy a 92 , shoot it for a year (a couple of thousand rds ) then tell me what you think. I have smiths sigs czs glocks berettas a xd and a few 1911s there really isn't a bad gun in the bunch, most are all metal with only 6 being polymer . I'm done..

 

[LVSteve]

I have no more trouble stripping/reassembling 3rd gen Smiths than I do any other auto.

Training is the solution.

The Beretta is good, but the Smith is better.
It's more durable, it fits different sized hands better, and the different grips make it fit even more.
Plus, the 5906 will feed empty brass.
Extreme feed reliability is a good thing.

No amount of training fixes the fact that stuff happens and small parts get dropped and lost. Any military logistics person with two brain cells to rub together will pick the weapon that has captive devices for the occasions that the weapon needs cleaning.

I do agree that the 3rd gen grip is vastly superior to the 92. For sure the DA trigger (at least on my TSW) is way better, too.

 

[Joelssteinbach]

I agree with most others, the great motivator $$$$$

 

[robmcd]

I'll add my 2 cents worth. Sorry for exceeding the word limit.

S&W started making 1911's because it is still the single most popular semi-auto pistol in the USA. In the past their specialty services division (who even makes forged parts for Harley Davidson) made 1911 parts for other manufacturers, primarily because S&W has an in-house drop hammer forge, a huge amount of CNC machining centers, as well as heat treating, plating and finishing. That said, S&W's vertical diversification probably makes their own 1911 pistols quite profitable.

I have a few 3rd gen guns, and they are among my favorites, though realistically the future of the largest USA market segment includes molded plastic frames. S&W actually prototyped a plastic pistol in the 1960's (on display in the factory museum) ahead of Glock. Earlier this year S&W purchased the CT based supplier of their M&P series frames, (now known as Deep River Plastics) which was a smart move in a downsizing market.

A final note. I believe the excellent investment cast frames sold by Caspian are cast by Pine Tree Castings (a Ruger company) and finish machined by Caspian. There are two other sources of frames in Massachusetts, and they supply many smaller manufacturers.

 

[DepOne]

Like it or not, there is still nothing like a good 1911 trigger. No plastic gun will ever be able to match It. The 1911 has been around for over a hundred years and will be around for another hundred years. It is still a classic, elegant design. You can argue the logic all you want but it is amazing how many companies are making money on the design. I guess some people just don't feel the need for a politically correct, cumbersome trigger.

 

[Gunner74]

S&W 1911 Market

While I certainly can't speak for the S&W marketing team it makes perfect sense to add these exceptional designs to the line to gain a market share in this arena and to ensure they are answering the needs of their customers.

 

[PJS50]

There's a lot of good/logical answers above, so I'll be short and sweet as to why S&W did this:

SPACE ALIENS

 

[YeshuaIsa53]

S&W does have a history of using frames to fill orders.

Now I'm wondering what a Glock 1911 would look like. I'll keep my 4003 TSW, thank you.

 

[Bamer127]

Dinosaur Folks?

You little snot nosed twerp. Just because the younger generations don't have the ability to handle a man's sidearm, don't insult us real men who do by calling us dinosaurs. You can take all, yes I said it, ALL (S&W M&Ps included) your plastic toy guns and shove them where the sun don't shine. I do not now, nor will I ever own such a replica of a real sidearm. I have shot various versions owned by other people, but it always makes me feel like I'm holding a toy, and that a little wheel should be spinning around and shooting sparks out the front. Life is too short to own plastic guns! S&W makes some of the finest revolvers in the world, and the quality of the S&W 1911 is second to none. I'm sure it was made because there are still people employed at S&W that have a true desire to make fine firearms, not just moneymaking toys.

Glock - Brought to you by the same people that brought you Adolph Hitler!

 

[DMSC]

Good grief...

Oh...Glocks are Austrian not German.

sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk Pro

 

[lard]

A little off topic, but....

For those of you looking for a good read, "Glock: The rise of America's Gun" by Paul Barrett. There are many references to S&W regarding their efforts to get into the plastic gun business. The marketing techniques that the USA distributor used to promote the Glock concept is not necessarily taught in college MBA programs but was extremely effective, much to the consternation of the S&W folks. A great read....

 

[TTSH]

For those of you looking for a good read, "Glock: The rise of America's Gun" by Paul Barrett. There are many references to S&W regarding their efforts to get into the plastic gun business. The marketing techniques that the USA distributor used to promote the Glock concept is not necessarily taught in college MBA programs but was extremely effective, much to the consternation of the S&W folks. A great read....

I have the book right in front of me as we speak!

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Kimber was making a killing and they wanted a piece of it.

In the early days of Kimber S&W made the raw forgings for Kimber's frames & slides............Simple transition to making their own 1911's

 

[adams484]

You said a mouthful... Couldn't agree more...

Personally, I wish they had stuck with the 3rd generation guns, which frankly I think are a much better design.

.... but that shouldn't mean they can't make 3rd gen guns as well.

I see I drifted, didn't I?

You said a mouthful but it made sense to me... I love the all metal DA/SA guns and carry one daily a 645. But then I can carry one of those 46 oz. guns still. But then again, I am only sixty now, but anticipate going to tupperware when I turn 80 and can't lift that much weight any more and will not out live the plastic.

 

[Bamer127]

Yes, I know Glock is Austrian, not German. Did you know that Adolph Hitler (originally born Adolph Schickelgrueber) was also Austrian?
As for a book calling Glock America's Gun, that could not be further from the truth. Originally designed and made by Gaston Glock, yes, an Austrian, the main reason it rose in popularity in the US is because it was priced ultra cheap for police/law enforcement. That didn't make it better than anything else, just made it cheaper. Same reason people shop at Wal-Mart and fill their homes with Chinese junk. Cheap! Same reason unemployment is running rampant in this Nation. Jobs are being moved to China because labor is, you guessed it, CHEAP! But all that is a different topic and has no place here. What it all comes down to in the end is that America has real gun manufacturers. Colt, Browning, Smith and Wesson etc... who have designed and built some of the greatest firearms in history. Including the M1911A1 in .45 ACP. There is a reason the MP40 was called the Burp Gun and the Thompson was called the Trench Sweeper. We don't need Glock as America's gun. We already have our gun and it isn't replaceable with a piece of Austrian Tupperware any more than John Moses Browning could be replaced by Gaston Glock. Glock isn't even in the same league.

 

[adams484]

Okay, thanks! Put another way, was the end of 3rd Gen production a necessary prerequisite to starting up 1911 production? Or were they likely unrelated.

I believe they are totally unrelated. The new management at S&W is in a competition mode but it is not in an innovation mode. See someone selling something and copy it and sell too.

Too bad because the Third Gen guns were truly a thing of their own. They copy Glock and copy Kimber. I just hope they don't copy Dan Wesson and stop making revolvers and go to 1911s only. Don't get me wrong Browning made a real fine gun for Colt but if all the manufacturers go to 1911s things are going to get real boring on the gun market.

My beaver tail and skelotonized hammer is better than your beaver tail and skelotonized hammer. And hey guys did you see the ejector on that gun...LOL I can't hit a dam thing with that gun must be the hammer...

 

[zelda]

Adolf Hitler was Austrian. NOT German


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler


Why be an Elvis look-alike ??

lf you want a 1911 then get the ''real thing''.

Buy a C O L T

 

[Jaymo]

I like the Beretta. Don't get me wrong.
I like the Smith a lot better.
Stronger, more durable.
I call bull**** on losing the slide locks.
If soldiers and cops can't strip/reassemble a 3rd gen Smith without losing parts, they can't strip/reassemble a jamomatic 16 or a 1911, without losing parts. If that is the case, they have NO business using/carrying firearms for a living.
Training IS the solution. Train them to pay attention to what the hell they're doing and NOT strip guns where they are likely to lose parts.

I like the Beretta very much, but I'll take the Smith over the Beretta every time.

 

[SWTIM255]

When I was a sales manager for S&W on the road, we had to do a letter each week telling the home office what the customers in the shops we visited were asking for. I did not change the Handgun part for a year, each week it was a S&W 1911. I was at a Promo the day the "Smith sold out" controversy hit, Kimber faxed out a boycott S&W letter to the dealers, I faxed a copy up to the factory, were they had pallets of frames on the loading docks waiting to be picked up by kimber, an hour or so later a "disregard the last fax" came into the shop from Kimber.

 

[Mandypi]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to the forum, I've been a S&W owner for over 40 years.
Hope I can share some of my input.

 

[cdiggs]

$$

To summarize:
Smith & Wesson is not in business to make pistols. They are in business to make money. As long as they (or anyone else) is owned and operated by a Board of Directors their fate will not be making a profit, but rather making maximum profit, whatever that takes. IMHO The day of being proud of making a product and living with what profit it makes is over.
BTW- I carry a 39-2 daily and have since the early '80s because, all things considered, it is my favorite pistol of all time. Again IMHO.

 

[JGR_LV]

Until Accumulator beat me to it, I was going to bring up the Kimber connection. In those days it was common for the loud&clueless set to rave about the Kimber and dismiss the SW1911 as a cheap also-ran. I suppose they were cheap compared to the prices Kimber was and is raking in. At any rate, they were usually mortified to learn where Kimber bought their parts. Oh,and second what CDIGGS said about the 1st Gen S&W autos. I don't carry my 439 these days because I can't get it back from my daughter until I can find her something she likes better, but I miss it.

 

[petepeterson]

Yes, I know Glock is Austrian, not German. Did you know that Adolph Hitler (originally born Adolph Schickelgrueber) was also Austrian?
As for a book calling Glock America's Gun, that could not be further from the truth. Originally designed and made by Gaston Glock, yes, an Austrian, the main reason it rose in popularity in the US is because it was priced ultra cheap for police/law enforcement. That didn't make it better than anything else, just made it cheaper. Same reason people shop at Wal-Mart and fill their homes with Chinese junk. Cheap! Same reason unemployment is running rampant in this Nation. Jobs are being moved to China because labor is, you guessed it, CHEAP! But all that is a different topic and has no place here. What it all comes down to in the end is that America has real gun manufacturers. Colt, Browning, Smith and Wesson etc... who have designed and built some of the greatest firearms in history. Including the M1911A1 in .45 ACP. There is a reason the MP40 was called the Burp Gun and the Thompson was called the Trench Sweeper. We don't need Glock as America's gun. We already have our gun and it isn't replaceable with a piece of Austrian Tupperware any more than John Moses Browning could be replaced by Gaston Glock. Glock isn't even in the same league.

Lighten up, Francis...

 

[4506517]

Lol......

It still isn't coming back.

 

[1775usmarine]

You little snot nosed twerp. Just because the younger generations don't have the ability to handle a man's sidearm, don't insult us real men who do by calling us dinosaurs. You can take all, yes I said it, ALL (S&W M&Ps included) your plastic toy guns and shove them where the sun don't shine. I do not now, nor will I ever own such a replica of a real sidearm. I have shot various versions owned by other people, but it always makes me feel like I'm holding a toy, and that a little wheel should be spinning around and shooting sparks out the front. Life is too short to own plastic guns! S&W makes some of the finest revolvers in the world, and the quality of the S&W 1911 is second to none. I'm sure it was made because there are still people employed at S&W that have a true desire to make fine firearms, not just moneymaking toys.

Glock - Brought to you by the same people that brought you Adolph Hitler!

Listen here gramps. I may be 28 yrs old, but I love my S&W 3rd gens as well as the wheel guns. Don't go farting around blaming my whole generation for the 90% that have not grown up and gotten rid of their toys yet.