A Brit-made six-gun that I love, the Enfield No. 2 MK I*

Wow fellas! Its kinda hard to follow the "lightening & thunder" that is your last two posts. This just keeps getting better and better! My thanks for such wonderful posts.

David
 
Just saw, "Flame Over India" again. Look at 1:16-17 and at 2:02. The Webley is now a shorter barreled one, a MK I maybe where Scott searches the station and on the train roof, maybe a MK IV or V. Anyone else notice that?

Les, thanks for posting the film link.
 
Yes, Texas, I noticed that. I saw that he didn't have a lanyard securing his revolver when he had the MK VI, must have lost it and could only find an older model to replace it!!!
 
For a nice overview of the wartime generals you might try "Churchill's Generals" by John Keegan. Each chapter devoted to a different man, the narrative surprising in the amount of detail. Whets the appetite.

We have the hardback edition. Companion volume to "Stalin's Generals" and "Hitler's Generals." There's a book out named "Roosevelt's Centurions" with the same theme but I don't know if it's part of the series.



[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Churchills-Generals-Cassell-Military-Paperbacks/dp/0304367125"]Churchill's Generals (Cassell Military Paperbacks): John Keegan: 9780304367122: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NU5Nv5KXL.@@AMEPARAM@@51NU5Nv5KXL[/ame]
 

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Thanks for the heads up, Bryan.... I found a nice used hardback copy of the Churchills Generals book on Amazon for a very reasonable price, just ordered it as soon as I saw your post. I think we share some of the same reading tastes as well as both having Bankers Specials!!!

Some of the books from my office at the college I teach at.... The whole place is much messier than your shelves look.... But we obviously have an interest in Churchill:



When the shelves fill up, they start piling up on the floor around me:



When the shelves and floor are full, they spill over onto the credenza:



One of my other interests is Russia and Russian history, so I have a few books on that subject as well:



And a few on firearms as well.



Texas Star, David, and now you, have all made excellent suggestions about books to add to the shelves recently. I thank all of you, and am seeking every day to learn more about some of my hobbies, historical and professional interests.
 
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Les-

I see that you have Haven & Belden's, A History of the Colt Revolver. (1836-1940). That's a real gem. I wish more people on gun boards had read it. It answers many Colt questions.

As for movie and TV guns, sometimes they change between scenes in the same episode! Sloppy prop men, I guess, and they don't think the public notices.

In the series, The Lost World (1999-2002), Rachel Blakely had, I think, three different revolvers. May have depended on what the prop house had on a given day that at least resembled the others. Lord Roxton switched from a Colt .45 auto to a pair of nickeled Webley MK VI's with white grips in shoulder holsters. Of course, he could have easily had both with him if the show had been real, and just carried what he favored on a given day. MK IV .38's filled in for other MK VI's, I think, as the MK IV.38 wasn't made until 1927, and the show was set from 1919-1922. Prof. Challenger's Colt .45 SAA was consistent, and the actor said that he liked the gun because he's fond of American Western movies! (He's a New Zealander.)

It had more Webleys in it than any other TV show in recent memory. Episodes can be found on YouTube, as well as many fan videos. If you see the Second Season episode, "Trophies", look for villain Avery Burton (Peter O'Brien) using a Ruger Blackhawk in lieu of a Colt SAA. The adjustable sights are the tip-off. The scene is when he captures heroine Veronica. I can post a video clip, but am not sure if it's okay for this board, as her jungle girl costume might not pass the Rules limitations. BTW, you can also see her knife well in that sequence, when she stabs it into a table top as she surrenders. Looks like a Fairbairn dagger, but has a leather or wooden handle.
 
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Texas: thanks for the heads up. You can probably see from all the time I spend on this board, how rigorous my job is. Well, I can always justify some of my time as "research", since one of my long time courses is called "firearms", and I learn a lot of stuff on here every day!!! Colts are one of my passions after Smiths, and before my newfound interest in Webleys and Enfields. I have a small "shooting" collection of Colts, a lot of snubbies and a few automatics, my oldest colt is a really nice 1877 "Lightning" in 38 long colt. It is one of the few guns that I own that I have not fired yet. I have 2 boxes of empty brass, and I guess I could use 38 spl dies, since it is just a shorter version of the 38 spl. But everyone says that they are delicate, and mine functions perfectly. Sooner or later, I'll shoot it.

I'm going to make it a point to check out the series that you mentioned above, "The Lost World", it sounds really interesting. I have the book, well, I have most everything that A. Conan Doyle wrote, including that. Didn't they make a stand alone movie out of that story once? Sounds familiar, but I can't remember. Look how long it took me to figure that van Leyden was Commissioner Dreyfus in the "Pink Panther"!!! I'll let you know what I think as soon as I check it out!!!

Edit: just checked Amazon Prime, I can watch the old movie "The Lost World", for free.... Well, I may have to try that out also!!! (Think I've seen it, but can't recall when, must have been awhile ago. Has Jill St. John in it, so can't be all bad)!!!
 
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Les-

"The Lost World" book appeared in 1912 and was one of several featuring Prof. Challenger, a character that Doyle actually preferred to his Sherlock Holmes. Challenger was based on his own medical school prof, a terrible egotist and all-round discriminating, sarcastic boor.

The first movie version was in 1925 and there have been about five, and three T V series based on the book. I saw the one from 1960, and agree that Jill St . John was the highlight. She is, BTW, exceptionally intelligent. I think I read that she's a literal genius, as well as a superb actress. Quite old now, of course. BTW, that film has Michael Rennie, the actor whom I pictured mentally as James Bond when I read the books before the first Connery movie appeared.

All of these movies and TV shows differed some from the book. The best, by far (I think), was the Aussie TV series from 1999-2002. Was shown in re-runs in many nations since. It's still on in some countries. I think it's on satellite TV now in the UK. The cast is by far the best of any of these, The Lost World (TLW) endeavors. They had great rapport, on and off screen. The guest stars were also usually good, among the better Australian actors. The series was made by the same group that produced, The Beastmaster and, Xena, but had better financing and better actors and plots. Two of the stars, Rachel Blakely and Lara Cox, did have rare guest roles on their other series.

Rachel played the main heroine, mysterious heiress and double agent Marguerite Krux, pronounced as Crew. She resisted Lord Roxton's advances for a season or two, with many sarcastic, witty remarks. But she mellowed and they became a couple. Veronica Layton (played by the sole American in the cast, Jennifer O'Dell) had a huge treehouse, where the expedition lived after their balloon crashed on the weird plateau in Brazil. Heroine Finn (Lara Cox) didn't appear until the Third Season, where she provided the cheesecake for awhile when Aussie Tax laws limited the number of eps in which foreign actors could appear without the producers paying added taxes.(!) When Jen returned, she and Lara got on well, and the characters bonded as almost sisters. Lara was in just 8 episodes, but gained a lot of male fans! She's an excellent , versatile actress, and fakes a US accent well, as she did in the DVD movie, "The Marine 2". NOT to be confused with the awful, "The Marine." Get "The Marine 2! "

The guy who played Challenger is a New Zealander who is, I believe, a trained Shakespearean actor and by far the best film Challenger. He mellowed as the series progressed, and became more likeable. The main male role was for Roxton, a much more heroic man than the one in the book, where I feel Doyle demeaned hunters in creating the character. BTW, Doyle knew almost nothing about firearms, and this was reflected in his Holmes books as well as in, The Lost World. The TV series did far better. Will Snow did a good job as Roxton, and was VASTLY admired by female viewers, who were very vocal about him on the Official New Line Cinema fan board and in other TLW fan boards. They overwhelmingly favored the sarcastic, scheming Marguerite over the blondes. I think men often preferred the blondes. I was a big fan of both Jen and Lara and their roles.


BTW, Rachel Blakely is half American. Her dad is American, and her sister lives now also in the US. Their mom was Australian, and when she died when Rachel was 12, Rachel stayed in Oz and identifies herself as Australian. She does get on well with her dad and sis and has visited them in the USA. Her long term partner is the guy who was the stunt director for the series. I think they live in Queensland and have two kids.

If you can still find all of the episodes on YouTube, do. Changes with copyright claims...But there are MANY fan videos that'll give you a look at the characters. Check under the actors' names as well as the show title. I have all three seasons on DVD. A guilty pleasure: one of the few TV series of which I was a real fan. But some episodes were silly, and some were excellent.

Most fan videos are set to music or are in the original English of the show. But some are dubbed in languages as varied as French, German, Czech, and Russian. Fan Fiction stories attract readers in AT LEAST 60 nations.
 
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Thanks for the heads up, Bryan.... I found a nice used hardback copy of the Churchills Generals book on Amazon for a very reasonable price, just ordered it as soon as I saw your post. I think we share some of the same reading tastes as well as both having Bankers Specials!!!

Some of the books from my office at the college I teach at.... The whole place is much messier than your shelves look.... But we obviously have an interest in Churchill:


When the shelves fill up, they start piling up on the floor around me:



When the shelves and floor are full, they spill over onto the credenza:



One of my other interests is Russia and Russian history, so I have a few books on that subject as well:



And a few on firearms as well.



Texas Star, David, and now you, have all made excellent suggestions about books to add to the shelves recently. I thank all of you, and am seeking every day to learn more about some of my hobbies, historical and professional interests.

You're my hero! I'd love to "have a nosey" around your library. Love books, reading books, collecting books. Mostly history and literature from from prior to about World War I. We have a library room but book cases have overflowed to some of the other rooms of the house. The firearms library is in the gun/reloading room.

Our library can get quite messy at times. We had a bit less than 1500 volumes on hand when we moved in 2008. Of course a few more have come to roost in the shelves since that time.

This photo was snapped to show a new second bath we had just installed in our 118+ year-old house three years ago but was taken in the library. We never watch TV. We read, watch old films, listen to music, and play on forums.
 
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Fantastic!! That's the life! I very seldom watch "conventional" tv. I have discovered the joys of occasionally watching old movies that are available on Amazon Prime and other streaming video sources. Mostly I read, history, especially military and British and (I don't know why) Russian history. I was a lit major as an undergraduate, and my love for Victorian and Edwardian lit is still one of the orbits of my reading universe. Everyone likes Dickens, but if you haven't tried him, Anthony Trollope is one of my favorites. I have all of his novels, and most of his short stories.

I love your library! Wouldn't mind poking around there, either!!!
 
Have always loved American history and also greatly enjoy studying British, European, and a smattering of Roman history.

Love Dickens, Trollope, Thackeray, Eliot, Hardy, and especially Doyle's Holmes. Fairly recently red "The Egoist" by George Meredith and found it entertaining in a Trollope/Thackeray sort of way.

American authors aren't left out here either however much into the 20th Century and I find many to be too coarse for my tastes.
 
Have always loved American history and also greatly enjoy studying British, European, and a smattering of Roman history.

Love Dickens, Trollope, Thackeray, Eliot, Hardy, and especially Doyle's Holmes. Fairly recently red "The Egoist" by George Meredith and found it entertaining in a Trollope/Thackeray sort of way.

American authors aren't left out here either however much into the 20th Century and I find many to be too coarse for my tastes.

Holmes was one of my earliest passions, I remember reading a small leather bound edition of "A Study in Scarlet", that belonged to my father when I was still in grade school. It sparked a lifelong fondness for Holmes. In my opinion, the "Anotated Sherlock Holmes" is the most enjoyable edition, with the notations on every page with photos of locales and coinage and every sort of victoriana that one can imagine. William S. Baring-Goulde, (I think, I'm not at home now, so I'm going by memory on the spelling). I think that although it is out of print, one can still obtain copies through abebooks. I've probably read the "canon" 25 or 30 times over the last 55 years or more. In my opinion, the best film adaptations were those of Jeremy Brett. Unfortunately he passed away before he could complete the entire body of work. When I was ordering the Churchill book you recommended earlier today, I saw that Amazon has the series on bluray at last, and at a reasonable price! I may have to indulge myself!!

David: I apologize for the thread drift!!!
 
Les-

I agree that Brett was the best film Holmes. Didn't know that he'd died.

I think you guys need to at least watch the news, especially on Fox, regardless of whether you care for the fictional series. I just quit watching,"Supergirl" for reasons that I can't place here. But it's vital to see the news, even if we don't often agree with the talking heads. We need an informed nation. And current events should always be of interest. They may affect our lives. It's important to stay tuned in, and not just about approaching hazardous weather.

I read history etc., but am a real fan of detective stories, inc. the better erotic thriller movies, like, "Basic Instinct" ,"Wild Things " and the book series like Robt. B. Parker's and those by John Sandford. Bryan would probably find some of this too "coarse" for him. Tastes differ.

I do look for accurate gun info in all books and movies and TV series that I watch or read. Many of the war books show the small arms in use, and some Ballantine or Bantam war paperbacks include excellent sketches.

We now return you to the original thread, ha!
 
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Yes, sorry for the thread drift. It's those British revolvers featured in this thread that caused it.

Even Dr. Watson had his "Old Army Revolver." This thought surely provided inspiration for acquisition of a British "Army revolver" or two of my own.

Hah! Great minds ...

"The Hound of the Baskervilles" in a flimsy paperback edition borrowed from a cousin, represented my initial exposure to Sherlock Holmes when I was 12.

There. In the corner. My beloved set given me by Mrs. BMc back in early marriage and read on an 18-month to 2-year cycle ever since. It is the best of all for the Sherlock Holmes fan. Last read it around Christmas of last year.
 

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Les-

I agree that Brett was the best film Holmes. Didn't know that he'd died.

I think you guys need to at least watch the news, especially on Fox, regardless of whether you care for the fictional series. I just quit watching,"Supergirl" for reasons that I can't place here. But it's vital to see the news, even if we don't often agree with the talking heads. We need an informed nation. And current events should always be of interest. They may affect our lives. It's important to stay tuned in, and not just about approaching hazardous weather.

I read history etc., but am a real fan of detective stories, inc. the better erotic thriller movies, like, "Basic Instinct" ," " and the book series like Robt. B. Parker's and those by John Sandford. Bryan would probably find some of this too "coarse" for him. Tastes differ.

I do look for accurate gun info in all books and movies and TV series that I watch or read. Many of the war books show the small arms in use, and some Balantine or Bantam war paperbacks include excellent sketches.

We now return you to the original thread, ha!

I loathe watching television for the news. It's all too easy to start with Drudge and a morning cup of tea or coffee, moving on to other viewpoints on news events of the day. By picking and choosing I can consume all the news and current events needed before the second cup is finished and without enduring commercials, news segments, or news slant that I don't want. I'm allergic to television news, an allergy which manifests itself in elevated blood pressure.

Traveling to my parents' for a few days in order to help them ready for a move. They are up in years and can no longer maintain their rural place. Already spent a week there cleaning out. They watch the news. It's a whipping!
 
Yes, sorry for the thread drift. It's those British revolvers featured in this thread that caused it.

Even Dr. Watson had his "Old Army Revolver." This thought surely provided inspiration for acquisition of a British "Army revolver" or two of my own.

Hah! Great minds ...

"The Hound of the Baskervilles" in a flimsy paperback edition borrowed from a cousin, represented my initial exposure to Sherlock Holmes when I was 12.

There. In the corner. My beloved set given me by Mrs. BMc back in early marriage and read on an 18-month to 2-year cycle ever since. It is the best of all for the Sherlock Holmes fan. Last read it around Christmas of last year.

Bryan-

I've agonized over what Watson's "service revolver" might be. British officers bought their own sidearms, and could carry anything, not just the official pattern. They were supposed to chamber the issue cartridges, but that was often ignored.

Garry James did a nice article on Holmes guns in G&A, years ago. In deciding what to picture if I read a Holmes book, I looked at the probable time that Dr. Watson retired and where he served, inc. Afghanistan, I think.

I'm not sure when the first Holmes story was set. Sometime in the 1880's, I think? That rules out a lot of possibilities.

I finally decided on either a MK II Adams .450 or a Webley-Pryse in .455 or .476. The .476 Enfield was too big to carry around later in London and was not well liked. Good ctg., bad gun.

Watson was a doctor and would know about the need for stopping power in fighting savage tribes in British colonies then. He may have treated spear and sword wounds in troops injured when a revolver failed to stop an Ashanti or Zulu warrior or a Fuzzie-Wuzzie or Pathan, Afghan, etc. He'd know the limitations of the .450 ctg.!

I think he was too late to have carried a Webley-Kaufman unless he bought it just before retiring.
Again, there's a size issue if he carried it in London, probably in a coat pocket. I doubt that Doyle even thought about that issue.

As for Holmes, Garry James thought he'd have a No. 2 Webley .450, then the London cop gun, I think. Going by memory on his article, BTW.

Makes sense, but I like the looks of the 1883 version of the RIC series. That's a nice looking gun of that sort, and offers a better handle shape over the other.

I think it was absurd that Holmes would practice shooting in "his rooms." Doyle knew VERY little of guns, and would have no idea of the penetration of a bullet, the noise aspect, or the effect of black powder fumes in an enclosed room. :rolleyes:

I also gravely doubt that a Russell's viper/Tic Palonga snake could be trained to crawl into a room through the ventilation system to get a dish of milk. I enjoyed, the Speckled Band, but don't respect his research. My favorite Holmes tales were the one where the guy was taking ape genes to climb well and, The Hound of the Baskervilles, which was at least plausible. I sometimes speculate on which guns I'd have with me if I assisted Holmes and Watson in pursuing that big dog.

I think my revolvers would be Colt SAA .45's, one with the original 7.5-inch barrel. A spare, maybe at times worn under a coat, would have the 4.75-inch bbl. Rifles? Maybe a Winchester .45-90 M-1886. If the story was set late enough, a .303 might be feasible, with softpoint hunting loads, or a .275 Rigby.

One big advantage, The Lost World TV show had over the book is that it was printed in 1912, and setting the TV show from 1919-1922 is that several better guns were more available.
 
I'm on my way to "work", so don't have much time, but it sounds as though we have more in common than differences. Its great exchanging stories and guns and likes with you guys!! I'll be back again.
 
These postings are getting better and better! Les, Texas, and Bryan all have kicked in some really relevant data/book listing/films all related to subject matter super interesting to all of us. The on-going, never ending quest for knowledge concerning Brit history, Brit firearms, and great British leadership that absolutely captures all three of us. Thanks again my friends! I will attempt to follow your lightening with some Webley thunder forth-coming.

David
 
Well, it's been three days, and I for one have been busy, I hope we keep this thread going a while longer, it is a good one. Today was the last day of classes for this semester, have been busy this week, next week finals, then three months off, will spend some of it checking out this forum. Lots to learn here.

Texas Star tried to warn me, but I just had to watch "The Lost World" 1960 version with Jill St. John. Whew. I could only do about twenty minutes at a time. I think when I saw the movie in 1960, I was about 15 years old, and it seemed a lot more interesting. Shame. The book was so good, and the movie is.... Well, I don't want to spoil it for anyone...but it's not very good.

The tv series though, that is just a few years old, which Texas refered us to, is much better. Hope to see some of you guys back here again. I followed a 1939 Enfield No. 2 Mark I which was Not modified, and very nice, on gunbroker, but it went to $590, and that was just a little more than I was prepared to go right now. Still looking for a really nice one. Which this was, just not the right time.
 
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