Les, I'm a George Smith Patton guy.
A Brit-made six-gun that I love, the Enfield No. 2 MK I*
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Les, I'm a George Smith Patton guy.
Well, me too. In fact that's what led me too Monty. I have read numerous books about Patton, always had great admiration for his leadership style, but was struck by the way that the movie "Patton" showed GSP always at loggerheads with Monty, so I thought I should learn a little about Monty.
Nigel Hamilton, the author of the three volume biography, had unlimited access to Monty's papers and effects, and had many opportunities to meet with and interview Monty before his death. I have also obtained Monty's autobiography, written by him entirely with pencil and paper and typed by secretaries inter his supervision. After extensive research into the supposed rivalry between these two men, I can only conclude that they, in their very different ways, we're both great men. Each had flaws, of course, but each had great leadership qualities, each was equally flamboyant and egocentric, and each was capable of instilling great loyalty in his men. I also don't think that either fully understood the other, and could never see the value of the others vision. If these two men had been able to cooperate better, they might have shaved a year off of the European conflict.
At any rate, I highly recommend these three volumes to your attention. My picture of Monty before was largely that of the movie Patton. He certainly had his flaws, but was great in his own way.
Best Regards, Les
Les I agree with what you've said. I sometimes wonder how we won with so much animosity between the allies and the services involved.
Back on track. I've been looking for a Webley Mark IV in .38 S&W and the prices are crazy. Forget about anything in .455 uncut. I am now going to consult "the book" and find out about "war finish".
I might look at Enfield, but I don't like the bobbed hammer.
Back on track. I've been looking for a Webley Mark IV in .38 S&W and the prices are crazy. Forget about anything in .455 uncut. I am now going to consult "the book" and find out about "war finish".
I might look at Enfield, but I don't like the bobbed hammer.
I found my MK VI that had been shaved while I was talking to a guy at the barbershop!!! He had picked it up in a trade, and was wanting to let it go at a reasonable price. When I got it I had not had a Webley since the MK IV 38 that I had got when I was a teenager for I think $16.00 or so. Anyway, I was a little hesitant because, number one, I wasn't really looking for one, and number two, if I was, I would have liked to have gotten an un modified one. But I had just picked up a really nice colt 1917, and was reloading .45 Auto Rims for it, so I had the wherewithal to feed it a proper diet of lower pressure loads, and I went ahead and bought it. I don't regret getting it, although if an uncut one were to turn up at a decent price, I would jump on it.
Anyway, if you see a decent modified MK VI, and the price is right, and it is in good shape, and has not been abused... No high power rounds through it... I would go for it. A really nice revolver, even if not shooting the original cartridge. Remember the .455 operated at lower pressure than the .45 ACP, so even though you can shoot .45 ACP with moon clips, I wouldn't recommend it unless you load some down in pressure so as not to stress.i think mine was proofed at "6 Tons", or 12,000 pounds per square inch, and the .45 ACP is considerably higher than that, if I remember correctly.
Anyway, if you see a decent modified MK VI, and the price is right, and it is in good shape, and has not been abused... No high power rounds through it... I would go for it. A really nice revolver, even if not shooting the original cartridge. Remember the .455 operated at lower pressure than the .45 ACP, so even though you can shoot .45 ACP with moon clips, I wouldn't recommend it unless you load some down in pressure so as not to stress.i think mine was proofed at "6 Tons", or 12,000 pounds per square inch, and the .45 ACP is considerably higher than that, if I remember correctly.
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Les, I'm going outside to the backyard storage shed, man cave of sorts, and get my "Monty" biography (Nigel Hamilton) back out for refresher course on a great Brit Leader. I'm a firm General Patton guy but, like yourself, found great and interesting qualities in General Montgomery, well worth the study of. Thanks for a great post.
David
Texas Star:
I don't know if we can do this or not, but I'm going to try anyway:
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hbY4jp5N9GA[/ame]
i just started to watch the movie, looks like it's going to be a good one. Now that we're all in a Webley mood!!
Texas Star
US Veteran
Les-
Thanks so much for posting that! It's a really good film. The ladies here may like the developing romance between the captain and the little Indian prince's governess, an American lady. (Lauren Bacall).
Watch sharply, and you may see that MK VI transform itself into either a MK I or maybe a Webley-Green in one or two scenes. Look for the added frame length ahead of the trigger guard.
You are wise to load down your shaved MK VI. The .45ACP at normal pressure operates at more than PROOF pressures for .455 revolver. (There was also a .455 Webley auto, and some 1911 Colts were also chambered for that round. Over 10,000 were sold to Britain in WWI, mainly for the RFC/RAF and the Royal Navy . The Royal Flying Corps became the Royal AF in 1918.)
I read Montgomery's autobiography as a teen. He had his good points, and I enjoyed the part where he told of officers being sent to have their swords sharpened in 1914. But Monty seemed unarmed in all WWII pics. Patton was the reverse. I preferred Patton's attitude on that score. I don't like the trend for US generals to look unarmed, even in combat zones.
In Vietnam, Westmoreland wore his famous ivory -handled Randall knife, and I think had a .45 on his other side. Anyone know?
Let me know if you like that movie. Spoiler: There may be a person on that train who is on the Muslim side! See if you can guess who.
You can even make the film into a drinking game. Every time you see a No. 4 Lee-Enfield instead of an earlier rifle, take a drink. But don't plan to drive that night...
Look for the barrel sticking out ahead of the front sight for a quick ID. I was looking for things like that by the time I was 13. I've gotten pretty good at it.
But as British generals went, look at Field Marshal Lord Slim, Viscount Slim of Burma. With relatively modest numbers of troops and supplies, Sir Wm. Slim recaptured Burma from the Japanese. As a general, he was better than Monty. He just didn't get as much press coverage. Orde Wingate was also a skilled leader, especially brilliant in his use of special operations troops. But he died too early in a plane crash. Look for a photo of him with a No. 4 rifle on his sling, about to board a plane. The only other picture I've seen of a general carrying a rifle into battle is of US paratroop general Gavin.
He also wore a .45 and a Randall Model 1 knife.
Thanks so much for posting that! It's a really good film. The ladies here may like the developing romance between the captain and the little Indian prince's governess, an American lady. (Lauren Bacall).
Watch sharply, and you may see that MK VI transform itself into either a MK I or maybe a Webley-Green in one or two scenes. Look for the added frame length ahead of the trigger guard.
You are wise to load down your shaved MK VI. The .45ACP at normal pressure operates at more than PROOF pressures for .455 revolver. (There was also a .455 Webley auto, and some 1911 Colts were also chambered for that round. Over 10,000 were sold to Britain in WWI, mainly for the RFC/RAF and the Royal Navy . The Royal Flying Corps became the Royal AF in 1918.)
I read Montgomery's autobiography as a teen. He had his good points, and I enjoyed the part where he told of officers being sent to have their swords sharpened in 1914. But Monty seemed unarmed in all WWII pics. Patton was the reverse. I preferred Patton's attitude on that score. I don't like the trend for US generals to look unarmed, even in combat zones.
In Vietnam, Westmoreland wore his famous ivory -handled Randall knife, and I think had a .45 on his other side. Anyone know?
Let me know if you like that movie. Spoiler: There may be a person on that train who is on the Muslim side! See if you can guess who.
You can even make the film into a drinking game. Every time you see a No. 4 Lee-Enfield instead of an earlier rifle, take a drink. But don't plan to drive that night...
Look for the barrel sticking out ahead of the front sight for a quick ID. I was looking for things like that by the time I was 13. I've gotten pretty good at it.
But as British generals went, look at Field Marshal Lord Slim, Viscount Slim of Burma. With relatively modest numbers of troops and supplies, Sir Wm. Slim recaptured Burma from the Japanese. As a general, he was better than Monty. He just didn't get as much press coverage. Orde Wingate was also a skilled leader, especially brilliant in his use of special operations troops. But he died too early in a plane crash. Look for a photo of him with a No. 4 rifle on his sling, about to board a plane. The only other picture I've seen of a general carrying a rifle into battle is of US paratroop general Gavin.
He also wore a .45 and a Randall Model 1 knife.
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Tex, I had forgotten about Lord Slim. He was a tough nut in a forgotten theater (CBI) of the war. My uncle was a "Hump Pilot" and was not pleased with being left until Germany was almost finished. He did understand the necessity of that strategy though.
Les, I am going to see if Netflix has that movie to stream. Funny, I once thought that meant a fishing spot.
Les, I am going to see if Netflix has that movie to stream. Funny, I once thought that meant a fishing spot.
"Flame over India" or as original British title "North West Frontier" is not on Netflix or Amazon Prime. So, ya'll can see it here thanks to Les & Tex.
Well, I was surprised to find I have the YouTube on my electric TV. Watching movie now.
Yeah, me too, watching through my Roku box, streaming to the hi-def tv. Bunch of old timers, sitting around watching movies made when we were teenagers, about guns that were made before we were born, on technology that is cutting edge. Here's a screen shot taken on my iPad from 37 min and 47 seconds into the movie. Webley MK VI?
Ain't life grand??? It's raining here at the cabin, and there's a wild tom turkey about 20 feet away, earring the seed that the birds knock out of the feeder.
Ain't life grand??? It's raining here at the cabin, and there's a wild tom turkey about 20 feet away, earring the seed that the birds knock out of the feeder.
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Texas Star
US Veteran
Not standing out and carrying a rifle probably made him a less conspicuous target.
Texas Star
US Veteran
Yeah, me too, watching through my Roku box, streaming to the hi-def tv. Bunch of old timers, sitting around watching movies made when we were teenagers, about guns that were made before we were born, on technology that is cutting edge. Here's a screen shot taken on my iPad from 37 min and 47 seconds into the movie. Webley MK VI?
Ain't life grand??? It's raining here at the cabin, and there's a wild tom turkey about 20 feet away, earring the seed that the birds knock out of the feeder.
Well, if that's not a MK VI, it's a heck of a good actor! It has me fooled.
Well, Texas was the one who remembered it, I just posted it. But I agree, that was a good movie. I had forgotten all about it, but after I started watching it, bits and pieces started to come back, but not enough to spoil it. What a treasure trove of Brit militarization, even if some of it was a little off period.
All through the movie, I kept thinking that Van Leyden looked familiar, it just dawned on me: he is Commissioner Dreyfus, inspector Clouseau's boss in the "Pink Panther" movies!!!
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DaHG1x2Bg84[/ame]
I know that I should grow up, but I still think those movies are hilarious. Sorry, I know that this has nothing to do with Enfields. Couldn't help myself.
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DaHG1x2Bg84[/ame]
I know that I should grow up, but I still think those movies are hilarious. Sorry, I know that this has nothing to do with Enfields. Couldn't help myself.
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Found this one of General James Gavin. Not only has a full sized Garand, but is wearing a .45 as well. I will link for some more of those you mentioned, Texas:
I think this is the one you mentioned with Orde Wingate:
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Texas Star
US Veteran
Found this one of General James Gavin. Not only has a full sized Garand, but is wearing a .45 as well. I will link for some more of those you mentioned, Texas:
I think this is the one you mentioned with Orde Wingate:
Yes, that's the one of Wingate with a No. 4 rifle. Note the webbing holster on the other officer. Wingate's revolver is on his other side, I guess. They usually wore them crossdraw.
Gavin wore the Randall Model 1 knife opposite his .45. There's a good pic of him sitting at a field conference with Maj. Gen. Ridgeway in Normandy. You can see the knife well, the retaining strap unsnapped. Probably came open by mistake. He wasn't about to need the knife urgently, and wouldn't want to risk loss.
Hmmm...Now that I think, the knife may be worn behind his holster. Many Army Rangers wore their Fairbairn knives that way.
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