A Chinese Hand Ejector Copy

[Goony]

First off, a link to a fun article (short read) -

Chinese Warlord Era Revolver

Here's my example of this genre. Six shot, with the barely rifled 4" barrel and cylinder being close to K-frame dimensions. The remainder of the gun is very much on the petite side, though.

The barrel markings are all gibberish. The trade mark is also poorly rendered. However, the grip medallions are credible, and the grips themselves are a decent fit and rather finely and nicely checkered.

It does have a legible four digit serial number on the butt, and amazingly a matching number on the rear face of the cylinder. It chambers .38 Special.

I've never removed the sideplate to check the lockwork, but it does seem to be generally in working order. In fact, the action is commendably smooth in double action, and the trigger pull in single action is pretty crisp (although the cylinder doesn't want to rotate fully into lockup when the hammer is manually cocked).

 

[Muley Gil]

Have you shot it?

 

[bigmtnman]

"The barrel markings are all gibberish"

I was laughing while looking at the "patent dates" area on the top of the barrel ---- "gobbledygook" was my thought before and went back and read your "gibberish" . Thanks --- fun post !

 

[Goony]

Have you shot it?

Well, I have some +P stuff I need to shoot up, so maybe I'll take it to the range tomorrow. Seriously, no and not likely to, for two reasons. First, while .38 Special chambers, I've no idea what ammunition was really meant to be used in it, and no reason to be confident in its metallurgy. Second, whether the rifling was originally this thin or it's just plain shot out, the state of the bore is such that I can't imagine being able to hit anything with it. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the rounds keyholed.

 

[stansdds]

What you have is a genuine Smidh & Wisson Hand Elector.

Yep, that thing was made by a talented blacksmith in China. Lots of fake Mauser 98's came from China too. I would not trust any of these firearms, no telling what grade of steel was used and I doubt any were properly heat treated.

 

[Goony]

Lots of fake Mauser 98's came from China too.

The variety and quantity of small arms the Chinese were able to churn out in small, crudely equipped workshops is pretty impressive. The Mauser C96 "broomhandle" and FN M1900 pistols were both widely, if imperfectly, imitated. I have one of the latter, replete with faux trade and proof marks.

 

[chief38]

It appears they let it soak in the Hot & Sour Soup too long! Man, don't know what the heck that is!!

 

[Narragansett]

I hope you came by that by way of free, and did not spend quality S&W funds on it. I would never fire that, the steel is no doubt junk.

I think that model was designed to fire a 38 caliber egg roll

 

[Inland7-45]

I have never seen a photo of one , but I have heard the the Chinese made copies of the 1928-A1 Thompson.

I have however seen parts kits from Thompson that were converted to 7.62 x 25.

I have also heard of Chinese copies of 1911s and M-3 SMGs.

 

[DWalt]

For some reason I cannot access the attachment. I sort of remember a similar article about war lord guns in the AR several years ago.

 

[swagmeister]

That is one ugly gun!!! The barrel markings could pass for Russian the way it looks. Hope you got a good deal on it, that meaning FREE.

 

[Goony]

This topic in general is actually pretty fascinating. Here's an article on a weird one that seems to have drawn on a number of different designs for inspiration:

Another Chinese Pistol

I've also attached a photo of a similar, although not identical, pistol.

 

[tennexplorer]

You need a copy of Ian McCollum's "Pistols of the Chinese Warlords."

 

[Goony]

You need a copy of Ian McCollum's "Pistols of the Chinese Warlords."

Apparently an expensive book, but if I can find one reasonably priced, I'll add it to my library. Thanks for the heads up on it.

 

[Jack Flash]

It doesn't look like they paid any more attention to patents and copyright laws back then than they do now.

 

[Goony]

Here's a great account (with lots of terrific photos) on another forum regarding phony hand ejector revolvers produced in China during WWII. In this case they were serially manufactured rather than singularly handmade knock-offs. They blatantly marked them "SMITH & WESSON" on the barrels, but did make an small error in stamping the other side with the caliber information.

See: Chinese War Time Arsenal Copy of Smith Wesson Revolver | Gunboards Forums

 

[Goony]

Another excellent article on Chinese warlord era copies in general.

See: Chinese Warlord Pistols: 1916-1949 | An Official Journal Of The NRA

 

[Goony]

More on the aforementioned book by Ian McCollum:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o_UOxr-PPA[/ame]

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

If you look close enough you can make out Norinco on it.

 

[alwslate]

Beautiful revolver, obviously very high quality. Looks like a good candidate for a rechambering job to the .357 magnum

 

[Goony]

Looks like a good candidate for a rechambering job to the .357 magnum

QED with these precision Chinese rechambering tools....



I did actually check to see if the cylinder was bored straight though so as to allow a .357 Magnum cartridge to be inserted, but that round wouldn't go in. It does seem that for any of its other shortcomings, the gun was correctly chambered to accept .38 Special only.

 

[Onomea]

Quite fascinating, really. Thanks for bringing the topic to our attention. Interesting historical relics.

 

[alwslate]

I would shoot it without hesitation with light cast bullet handloads. if it hasn't blown up with factory ammo or WW2 full metal jacket over all these years it is surely safe to fire with light loads. It might become your favorite plinker

 

[Bill Lear]

I have never seen a photo of one , but I have heard the the Chinese made copies of the 1928-A1 Thompson.

I have however seen parts kits from Thompson that were converted to 7.62 x 25.

I have also heard of Chinese copies of 1911s and M-3 SMGs.

I do believe NORINCO is a 1911 "clone" and highly regarded as being quite sturdy and decently reliable with no more end-user fiddling than the Genuine article - nor even the S&W COPY of the 1911!
What?

 

[Bill Lear]

The Chinese made AKs that were permanently banned from import thanks to Old Joe, Hills, and James were of outstanding quality and reliability.

Off-topic: I watched a documentary showing Filipinos building 1911s in huts, using basic hand tools and files. The final product looked machine made.

 

[merl67]

Reminds me of some Khyber Pass guns I've seen...

 

[Goony]

I have never seen a photo of one , but I have heard the the Chinese made copies of the 1928-A1 Thompson.

There's one such held in the collection of the Imperial War Museum. See: Chinese Thompson copy & 'Thampson' | Imperial War Museums

 

[Goony]

Just to show that, for all they may be disparaged, these Chinese copies can in fact bring big money...

See: Lot Detail - (C) CHINESE BROOMHANDLE MAUSER C96 SEMI-AUTOMATIC .45 ACP PISTOL.

More on these: Chinese Warlord Pistols: The Huge Shanxi .45 ACP Broomhandle

 

[Goony]

1900's

Copies of the Fabrique Nationale Model 1900 are among the most common "warlord" guns, although they vary a good deal in their details. I posted mine in reply #6 above. Several years ago, the Rock Island Auction Company sold a group of four Chinese pistols, three of which were 1900 types. Interestingly, one of those is pretty similar to my example, right down to its horn grips. But in keeping with the theme that no two of these will be precisely alike, you can pick out differences in detail, such as the style of the sights, serrations, and safety lever. See: Four Chinese Semi-Automatic Pistol Copies | Rock Island Auction (it's the one at the bottom that's fairly close to mine).

Here's an article about another of these as well: The Chinese 1900, A Hand Crafted Copy -The Firearm Blog (if you look at the photo of the gun disassembled, you have to afford respect to some small shop's ability to fabricate all these parts by hand and come up with any sort of working sidearm).

 

[LVSteve]

I do believe NORINCO is a 1911 "clone" and highly regarded as being quite sturdy and decently reliable with no more end-user fiddling than the Genuine article - nor even the S&W COPY of the 1911!
What?

I've heard stories of the steel on those Norinco 1911s being as tough as old boots.


As for their Mauser rifle clones, 98s and FN Model 24s, all the ones I've seen were long past "rode hard and put away wet", so shooting them to find out if they hold up hasn't been an option. I thought the South Americans put their guns through hell, but the Chinese carried it to another level.