A DSC Snubnose Victory -- UPDATED WITH NEW SWHF INFO

[handejector]

14344
OR
43144
??????

 

[DCWilson]

I see two overlapping 4s in the final position, so on the principle of two rows of three numerals, I'd make that 143444. (But I acknowledge that's pretty awful spacing and alignment.)

In the photo I posted, I figure the three heavy strike numerals are the top row and the three light strikes make up the second row. Good thing the two central numerals were the same, because when I first looked at these stampings I thought it was a single row!

 

[Masterpiece]

I'd make that 143444.

I'll have to agree with David...143444!! Looks like he tried to stay away from the Stock Washer with the Last 4 so he didn't chip the wood!! Ha!~Ha! Just Kidding!!

Alright fellas, who wins the Big Prize for the Ugliest Serial-Numbered Grips?? Or should I start looking around to see if I have a Pair to beat them both??

 

[handejector]

I think the double 4 is a bounce. Maybe not.



N frame post war

 

[Masterpiece]

I think the double 4 is a bounce.

I hate to switch sides David, but I think I may have to in this particular scenario!! Sorry, but I believe Lee may have a good point on this pair!!

Reason being, I've seen Grips stamped similarly in the past, but I can't recollect anymore if the seemingly Double-Stamped Numerals were the same No. or not!!

I'd say too close to call with any certainty!!

 

[DCWilson]

I should have mentioned that there is an S stamp on the frame under the stocks (right side) and on the rear face of the cylinder. That one is visible in a photo above.

Is the S an inspection mark?

 

[Texas Star]

This is just a guess, but if snubs went to a military address, might they have been meant for Army CID personnel, or CIC?

If shipped to CA , some may have been sent on to Hawaii, too.

 

[Masterpiece]

David,

I want you to know that I'm not saying that this statement is a positive fact, but I suspect that the S's have the possibility of being related to it having had the Hammer Safety Block Upgrade installed!!

Granted it doesn't have the other stampings they are generally seen with, (Rear Upper Right Side on the Sideplate stamped with an S and/or an S added to the Butt Serial No.), but beings it shipped in the vicinity of the time these modifications should have been done when built, I'd have to think it's a possibility at least!!

I'll admit I'm not sure if the S would be on the Sideplate for sure, but most assuredly it should at least have an S stamped somewhere on the Butt before or after the Serial No. if it was installed!! Like I said, this is just my opinion, not the cold hard facts!!

Do you know for fact if the Hammer Block has been installed on your Revolver?? If not, I'm sure if Charlie Flick sees this he'll know for sure if those S stamps are an indication of it!!

 

[DCWilson]

I should have mentioned that when I asked the question. This gun does not have the revised hammer safety block. You can tell by looking down in front of the hammer as the hammer comes back in both single and double action operation. The S has to indicate something else.

 

[DCWilson]

This is just a guess, but if snubs went to a military address, might they have been meant for Army CID personnel, or CIC?

If shipped to CA , some may have been sent on to Hawaii, too.

Good points.

I also have a two-inch Colt Commando that I have not yet lettered, but based on the serial number and known guns with nearby numbers it probably went to San Francisco Bay. From there I imagine the guns went to Hawaii, the South Pacific, and maybe even to China with the OSS guys who were involved in some programs there.

 

[Masterpiece]

I should have mentioned that when I asked the question.

Hi David,

Now he tells us!! I suppose that's partly my fault as that was the first thing I should have asked!! That's alright, I like to type anyway...not really!! Ha!~Ha!

No harm-No foul!! I guess it's back to square one!! Still think Charlie might have an idea if he stops around!! We'll see!!

 

[mikepriwer]

The S on the grip frame is probably a service department marking. If its on the
rear face of the cylinder, it probably means that the cylinder was worked on, or
replaced.

For the modified hammer safety, the S is on the sideplate.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[Hondo44]

14344
OR
43144
??????

I guess it depends on which one of those gun you want to put them on....

I can just envision ole' GDH (or is it GHD) the government inspector with his stop watch looking over the shoulder of the poor assembler stamping the numbers in the Smith plant!

 

[DCWilson]

Back to top: Original post updated with info from company letter.

 

[Oyeboteb]

14344
OR
43144
??????

Looks like 14344 to me...

 

[charlie sherrill]

Paris, Texas is not a very large city. Maybe it was during WWII if some kind of defense plant was there, I don't know. I doubt there were 100 LEO's in Paris, Texas that needed sidearms then. They may have been shipped there but I suspect they were shipped for reasons other than going to a local S.O. Let us know what the letter shows. Nice gun, interesting thread.

 

[rayb]

Paris, Texas is not a very large city. Maybe it was during WWII if some kind of defense plant was there, I don't know. I doubt there were 100 LEO's in Paris, Texas that needed sidearms then. They may have been shipped there but I suspect they were shipped for reasons other than going to a local S.O. Let us know what the letter shows. Nice gun, interesting thread.

Camp Maxey, Lamar County, was a training & staging center during WWII, was still a National Guard training site last I was involved in military business. There were probably "lots" of LEO's, but don't know if there were 100.

Edit to add: Also one of the largest if not the largest, POW compounds in the CONUS. So maybe a basis for a larger than usual SO?


rayb

 

[DCWilson]

Paris, Texas has a population of about 25,000 today, and Lamar County a population of about 50,000. After a postwar period of decline and recovery, the county population is about where it was in the 1940s, but Paris has grown a bit; the population was less than 20,000 during WWII.

Camp Maxey opened for business in July 1942 as an Infantry Training Camp and ceased operations in October 1945. Today it is a training facility for the Texas National Guard.

I have no idea if the division between military and law enforcement supply operations was somewhat porous in the late days of WWII, but a bureaucracy is a bureaucracy, and I suspect the answer is "not very." I would expect any sidearms purchased for use at Camp Maxey would have been War Department orders, and the stateside LE or essential industry purchases would have gone through the Defense Supplies Corporation. A hundred-gun shipment does seem large for a small county, but if the budget was good and supplies high, maybe the agency was buying ahead. Possibly the guns were purchased in greater-than-needed quantities and in some cases never issued to LE personnel. Certainly the gun with which I started this thread shows no signs of heavy or regular service, though it has some handling scuffs from its years of passing from collector to collector.

I don't for a moment believe that all 100 guns in the Paris shipment had two-inch barrels. I would imagine that 90 or more were four-inch Victories, and that perhaps only two or three had the shorter barrels. As soon as the wartime and early postwar S&W records have been digitized by the S&W Historical Foundation, I will try to find out how many of each type were ordered through the DSC. Perhaps the archived DSC records themselves hold the answer.

I have not found a Jack Reeve in the 1930 or 1940 census who can be clearly identified with this Jack Reeve. He is mentioned in a brief item in a 1941 issue of the Paris newspaper as a "former deputy sheriff" who was an announced candidate for election to the office of Marshal. I don't know if Reeve was again a deputy sheriff in 1945, but whatever his occupation or affiliation he was clearly in a position to take delivery of firearms orders placed under policies governing non-military acquisitions.

During WWII Lamar County was the site of a facility that built munitions crates. I imagine that would have been considered an essential industry whose security department had the right to seek appropriate firearms through the DSC, but I am not sure how big a security force such an operation would require. I suspect the order was placed through the local Sheriff or Police Department.

It's nice to know the destination for this uncommon Victory, but there is still plenty to learn about the circumstances under which it was ordered and shipped.

By the way, connoisseurs of whimsical public art might like to know there is a miniature Eiffel Tower in Paris crowned with a large red cowboy hat.

 

[semperfi71]

Again a very informational thread on a interesting subject. This forum is just about astounding.

 

[edlmann]

By the way, connoisseurs of whimsical public art might like to know there is a miniature Eiffel Tower in Paris crowned with a large red cowboy hat.

. . . and now we know what Jack Reeve was guarding!