A form of child abuse?

[JOERM]

Many times over many years I have seen parents, mostly dads, pick up their babies, less then 2 years old, by their legs and swing them around or pick them up by their arms or worse yet by one arm.

My so called step son-in-law and my step daughter came by to pick up the son who is 14 months old who spent the night. Bill, the dad, grabbed the baby by one arm just below the shoulder and picked him up and lifted him high above his lap then sat him down. I hate it when parents do this and almost shot my mouth off but waited to see how the boy reacted. He did not seem to mind so I kept my trap shut.

Later I mentioned this to my wife and she saw it too. She said he dosen't care about kids or things like that. I don't know, to me it sure seems like the arm could easily be dislocated from the shoulder from an undevelop child.

I will for sure though make my opion known the next time I see Bill do something like this again. Maybe it is not child abuse but if it were me I sure as hell would not want to be handled that way, today or as a baby.

Joe

 

[Erich]

The husband of a friend of mine used to play "Daddy Monster" and go around and pretend-scare and grab his kids. He grabbed the three-year-old by an arm and they were giggling and laughing when the five-year-old hollered, "I'll save you," (also laughing) and grabbed the kid's legs and pulled.

The arm was dislocated.

Putting it back in was no big deal for the ER, but it was probably a good thing that both his kids told the same story that he did.

My take on it is that rough-and-tumble is fine, but that you should try to be careful. Kids are mighty tough, but you'd feel terrible if you broke one of them.

I think it speaks well of you that you're concerned, but it might be that there's a way you could present it to your stepson so that he'd be more willing to hear what you're saying. Like, "Man! Every time you do that my heart stops. Kids are so flexible. Don't you worry about dislocating his shoulder?" And then you're having a dialog. Probably better than saying, "Hey, so-called step-son-in-law, that's child abuse!"

 

[JOERM]

I will be civil if there is a need to say something. I call him "so-called" because they never got married, just live together but they tell everyone they are married. Guess I could have left that part out of the post. It's just that my wife and I have a problem with his attitude and lack of motivation and his.....Well, never mind.

 

[NFrameFred]

The bones at that age are very soft and pliable and joint injuries are easily sustained.

The practice of holding onto a small child's hands or wrists and "swinging" them around causes an injury the hospital calls "nurse-maid's elbow" (among others) where the joint is dislocated. Usually easily 'rolled' back into place, it's still not something to be taken lightly. I've spoken about it to people I've seen do it and hear something like, " We do it all the time - he loves it ! He begs me to do it !" And then they act like you are the meddling moron.

Some people shouldn't breed . . . .

 

[ingmansinc]

It is probably the way he was brought up. Hard to change things like that and they don't give a test before you have kids. May I suggest that you get some documentation of accidents that have occurred because of this type of handling and present it to them as you express your concerns. Good luck as nobody wants to see a child get hurt.

 

[SASABERANGER]

Grandpa,
I am with you. Kids have it hard enough without stupid parents.
I am sure I have done things just as dumb when the boys were little. Guess I have gotten smarter with age.
Abbie's Grandpa.
Thom Braxton
SWCA #1474

 

[Jellybean]

I am with you. Kids have it hard enough without stupid parents.

I could write a book on what I've seen our grand daughter go through with my step daughter. Fortunately the SD is in prison for a year and everyone is a lot safer now. Unfortunately none of it was because of what happened to the grand daughter and she might get her back eventually.

 

[rodcraft]

If the ER nurse considers it abuse then cps gets called who then takes the kids while they drum up some charges. Some fractures (spiral for example) are almost a given for cps to be called. If it isn't 'abuse' it's pretty high on the stupid meter.

 

[Wickahoney]

One of my Profs in college told a story on herself. She was raised in PA as a Quaker but made the choice to "go out". She was loved and nobody ever spanked or yelled at her in her life.

She went off to college and found a New York, Italain boy that she just loved and in fact married.

The first Christmas after they were married they went back to his family home for the holidays.

Huge Italian family, lots of Aunts and Uncles and cousins. Lots of kids running around and shouting and yelling and pushing and shoving. All of which was absolutely foriegn to her.

It came to a head when the early school age boys started teasing Aunt Teresa. Described by the prof as a huge Italian woman with huge breasts and a mustache heavier than her husbands. The game apparently involved the boys teasing Aunt Teresa and her chasing them around the room and yelling at them and even slapping them up along side the head.

She then caught one of the boys and tickled him "till he threw up his dinner". She was absolutely shocked. She went in the bedroom and called the police and reported the child abuse and requested they call Child Protection.

She said she tried to make the dispatcher understand just how terrible the abuse was. Yes, she was crying and sobbing at how terrible it all was and that her husband hadn't done anything to stop it.

5 minutes later the cops knocked on the door and come in prepared to do their duty and incarcerate the evil child abusers.

She said she knew she might have over reacted when the cops all smiled and were on first name terms with most of the family including Uncle Sal, who retired off the job.

The police then asked for details. She went into a lengthy description of all the abuse while her new in laws stood in stunned silence as they came to understand that she thought they were hurting their children!!!

She said luckily it all worked out and that the mother in law took her under her wing and explained "Family" life to her.

Her point was that we are all products of our enviroment and that abuse is often in the eyes of the beholder. With her sheltered life it well may have been abuse. On the other hand in her husbands family with the rough and tumble the annual teasing of Aunt Teresa was simply part of an annual tradition that all absolutely reveled in.

Our daughter Alexandria dropped the lid to the toy box on her arm at age 2 and broke it. 4 months later she swapped places with her brother and slept in her brothers top bunk. Of course she fell out in the middle of the night, and broke another wrist. A few months later she came running into her mothers sewing room and slid to a stop in her stocking feet in front of her mom and then slipped and fell on the waxed hard wood floors and on the way down she pulled the sewing machine off the sewing table and of course it fell on her and broke an ankle.

The wife and I were absolutely devistated. While we were at the ER I meantioned them reporting us for "abuse". The doctor laughed and said, "Son, we know what abuse looks like and how abused children behave." "This is a healthy, bubbly, bright and loved child that has had a run of bum luck"

If you are geuinely concerned then politely mention it and rationaly and calmy discuss it.
Anger and ill will won't change anybodies behavior.

The best

RWT

 

[crofoot629]

I think you should consult a pediatrician

Emory

 

[Erich]

I think you should consult a pediatrician

Who will ask you whether you have guns in your house . . .

 

[David LaPell]

Nice thing about my Doctor who also does pediatrics. He has a big wall of hunting / fishing pics on his wall. If he asks about guns, its because he wants to compare notes!
But seriously, I have seen adults arrested and brought to jail for what some idiot judge considered abuse. Here in NY, some of the judges would consider rough housing with a child that led to an injury would be worthy of one charge, endangering the welfare of a child, the same thing most sex offenders get alot of times. And yes, I have seen people get tagged with that dreaded sex offender label for doing nothing more than rough housing with a kid. The laws dont differentiate, and neither do some judges.

 

[gregintenn]

I've always picked my children up by their hands. My wife and I used to hold one hand each while one of my sons swung in between us giggling. I suppose I'm a child abuser as well. How is this different from a child climbing a tree or swinging on monkey bars?

 

[GatorFarmer]

Originally posted by gregintenn:
I've always picked my children up by their hands. My wife and I used to hold one hand each while one of my sons swung in between us giggling. I suppose I'm a child abuser as well. How is this different from a child climbing a tree or swinging on monkey bars?

We do it too. And my parents and grandparents did it. No one was injured. Shrug. Almost got into a fight with someone who told me I was going to kill my son letting him ride up my shoulders since he'd fall. Never mind that I always hold his ankles...

Real abuse does happen mind you. There are people who beat their kids mercilessly, keep them in dog cages, and burn cigarettes out on them.

Playing pony time or monkey time - that isn't usually abuse.

Small humans seem to enjoy it since it's a primal thing. Check out the monkey house at the zoo sometime. Baby monkeys like to swing, climb, and play.

 

[parallel]

Originally posted by Wickahoney:

***snip***

Our daughter Alexandria dropped the lid to the toy box on her arm at age 2 and broke it. 4 months later she swapped places with her brother and slept in her brothers top bunk. Of course she fell out in the middle of the night, and broke another wrist. A few months later she came running into her mothers sewing room and slid to a stop in her stocking feet in front of her mom and then slipped and fell on the waxed hard wood floors and on the way down she pulled the sewing machine off the sewing table and of course it fell on her and broke an ankle.

The wife and I were absolutely devistated. While we were at the ER I meantioned them reporting us for "abuse". The doctor laughed and said, "Son, we know what abuse looks like and how abused children behave." "This is a healthy, bubbly, bright and loved child that has had a run of bum luck"

***snip***

+1... although...as a Pennsylvania dutch boy myself, I can tell you that one doesn't know "rough and tumble" until one spends a week on a Pennsylvania Dutch farm.

Also, I am an foster/adoptive parent who is the president (Mrs. Parallel is the Secretary) of our regional foster/adoptive parents association. I understand EXACTLY what that doc understands. Once you see actual child abuse, you see things in a whole new light.

 

[Wickahoney]

Paralell: When I first graduated from colege I had already been a street cop for about 9 years. Before I got the gig with the feds I worked for the State of Idaho in H&W doing Welfare Fraud investigations.

Because of that I knew all the quasi LEO types at H&W. I casually remarked to Bob Bratcher , the head of CPS at the time that I tought zI might put in as a Protection Officer/Investigator.

Bob took a look at me and smiled andsaid there is simply no way I would ever hire you. It sort of stunned me, I thought we were friends. zNope, can't do it, you'll just end up killing some A hole.

There is a reason that the CP workers are female andslightly efeminate guys!!! Oaky, I got it. ;-)

Yeah, it didn't take to long as a LEO to get it figured out and have the ability to spot real abuse.

RWT

 

[crofoot629]

Who will ask you whether you have guns in your house . . .

Eric, Your smarmy comment is not helpful to me or the op.
Ok, you brought it up. Do you have kids, and has your pediatrician asked you if you have guns in the house? I live in Ashland Oregon where the two largest employers are the University, and the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. Not exactly a conservative hotbed. I have never been asked by any of my kid's doctors, or my docs if we own guns.

Emory

 

[Forester]

Originally posted by crofoot629:

Who will ask you whether you have guns in your house . . .

Eric, Your smarmy comment is not helpful to me or the op.
Ok, you brought it up. Do you have kids, and has your pediatrician asked you if you have guns in the house? I live in Ashland Oregon where the two largest employers are the University, and the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. Not exactly a conservative hotbed. I have never been asked by any of my kid's doctors, or my docs if we own guns.

Emory

I have, several times. It is common practice for pediatricians who buy in to the policies of the National Academy of Pediatrics. They ask if there are guns in the house and how they are stored. I answered "safely".

I think smarmy is a little over the top. I didn't take it as such.