You are correct, I was shooting right handed off-hand. I am in Illinois. I shot several mags from 7 yards and a few more from 15 yards. Once I got more familiar with the weapon, I did get more consistent, albeit the results were similar.
A little surprised ... and disappointed
- Thread starter Jambayzie
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dullh
Member
If you want to believe that, you go with that.
I stick by my original post.
See, if you can think about it, you'll see that it's easier to simply drift the front sight in the direction you want it to go than it is to 1) heat the rear sight screw to loosen the Loctite 2) remove rear sight screw 3) adjust rear sight 4) replace screw.
You do what you want. It absolutely does not matter and it's way easier to adjust the front sight than the rear.
Thanks for your input.
Oh and by the way the book that came from the factory with the Shield disagrees with you, too...
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forrestinmathews
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It's all good brother. Apparently these slim grip polymer pistols are tricky to shoot at first. Between a Sig 239 and a Kahr 9mm I was quickly educated that these small guys weren't for me. I shoot a PPK well and J frame better.
If you feel the sights are off you should adjust them so that the bullets you pay for hit where you need to. If you find out you made an error you can correct it. If you booger up the sights, you can have a gunsmith install better sights. It's really not a loss. Shoot, enjoy, clean the gun. Repeat as often as you can stand it.
If you feel the sights are off you should adjust them so that the bullets you pay for hit where you need to. If you find out you made an error you can correct it. If you booger up the sights, you can have a gunsmith install better sights. It's really not a loss. Shoot, enjoy, clean the gun. Repeat as often as you can stand it.
Does your front sight appear to be centered on the slide, or is it offset to the left as well?
I would definitely attempt to center the rear sight. Seeing it off that much would surely drive me nuts. Be warned, the rear sight can be a PITA to drift without the proper sight pusher. Might be worth having it performed by a gunsmith or S&W.
I would definitely attempt to center the rear sight. Seeing it off that much would surely drive me nuts. Be warned, the rear sight can be a PITA to drift without the proper sight pusher. Might be worth having it performed by a gunsmith or S&W.
Rastoff
US Veteran
The manual for the full size and compact M&P pistols says to move the rear sight for windage corrections. The manual for the Shield says to move the front sight for windage corrections. Why they do this is anyone's guess.
In the end it matters not. Move whichever sight makes you happy. Front sight moves opposite point of impact(POI) and rear moves in concert with POI.
Also, just because the sight is not in the middle of the slide doesn't mean it will not shoot to the point of aim(POA). Due to the nature of the barrel not being fixed to the sights, it may be necessary for the sights to be off center to get center hits. This is one reason revolvers are generally more accurate than semi-autos.
In the end it matters not. Move whichever sight makes you happy. Front sight moves opposite point of impact(POI) and rear moves in concert with POI.
Also, just because the sight is not in the middle of the slide doesn't mean it will not shoot to the point of aim(POA). Due to the nature of the barrel not being fixed to the sights, it may be necessary for the sights to be off center to get center hits. This is one reason revolvers are generally more accurate than semi-autos.
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The rear sight is obviously offset to the left. It would be desirable for it to be centered. The front should be centered as well. Then, if you have a problem it's time to work on other issues.
Der Biermeister
Member
Maybe I am all wet, but IMO your problem has to be that the set-screw hole in the slide is off. In fact, it has to be way off from tolerance for the rear sight to be THAT noticeably off in the picture. Now that I know what I am looking at, I can actually see the error by looking at the position of the set screw vs. what would be the centerline of the slide forward of it. Send your slide back to S&W ... they goofed.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Yes, you're all wet. There is no set screw hole in the slide. Well, at least there isn't in any other M&P. Maybe that's why they don't want you moving the rear on the Shield.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Well, there shouldn't be a detent either. Is that a Shield thing? The other M&Ps don't have that. How would you make small adjustments to the sight if there is a detent?
Der Biermeister
Member
First of all - I am convinced now that you are correct, there is no hole. Reason being - you never use a set screw to join two threaded pieces. DUH ... not sure why I didn't think of that. But as for a detent -- maybe. And that would make sense, explaining why there are specific instructions for the Shield not to attempt adjustment on the rear sight.
Unfortunately, I did not look close enough at my gun when I had my titrium sights installed.
Unfortunately, I did not look close enough at my gun when I had my titrium sights installed.
No the screw doesn't screw into anything, it's just that, a set screw.XS Big Dot installation on S&W M&P Shield - YouTube
Der Biermeister
Member
First -- thank you for the video, that provides a lot of answers.
I am partially correct. While not exactly a detent, there IS a recessed channel that the set screw fits into that is limited on the left side. As the video clearly shows (around 7:20 on the timer) the left side of the channel is circular. The right side is bounded by the spring cap. So, the set screw has a limited space with which to find its center point when tightened. I am still convinced that this channel on your gun was milled out too far to the left, and that is why the whole rear sight is off to the left by enough tolerance error to be easily noticed with the naked eye -- ref the picture you posted.
Now, if the channel is indeed too wide (allowing the set screw and the whole rear sight to move left)
AND if the hole for the spring is in its proper location -- it should be an easy fix to loosen the set screw and tap the rear sight (using a brass punch) slightly to the right to line up its outer edges with the left/right outer edges on the slide, and then re-tighten the set screw. However, if the spring hole is also off to the left, then your only option is to return the slide for replacement.
No, I am not a gunsmith -- but the problem here appears to be intuitively obvious.
I am partially correct. While not exactly a detent, there IS a recessed channel that the set screw fits into that is limited on the left side. As the video clearly shows (around 7:20 on the timer) the left side of the channel is circular. The right side is bounded by the spring cap. So, the set screw has a limited space with which to find its center point when tightened. I am still convinced that this channel on your gun was milled out too far to the left, and that is why the whole rear sight is off to the left by enough tolerance error to be easily noticed with the naked eye -- ref the picture you posted.
Now, if the channel is indeed too wide (allowing the set screw and the whole rear sight to move left)
AND if the hole for the spring is in its proper location -- it should be an easy fix to loosen the set screw and tap the rear sight (using a brass punch) slightly to the right to line up its outer edges with the left/right outer edges on the slide, and then re-tighten the set screw. However, if the spring hole is also off to the left, then your only option is to return the slide for replacement.
No, I am not a gunsmith -- but the problem here appears to be intuitively obvious.
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Utahshield
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All you guys that say the manual says to change windage move the front sight is correct. My bad for not clarifying that. Some of us don't read the manual, and do everything the manual says.
I have adjusted and removed several front and rear sights on Shields, and the rear sight is much easier to adjust windage than the front. You don't have to take out the Allen retaining screw all the way out and tapping the base of the rear sight with a brass punch is much easier. I guess it comes down what is most comfortable for you and less prone to damage. I have never had to heat up any sight to move it or replace it on any of my pistols.Biermaister--
I went through some similar angst when I first got the Shield.
First, being a 1911 shooter, the trigger is just inherently different on the Shield, and I was "all over the place" for much of the first session on the range. It did get better near the end of that session, but...
Second, the trigger and release action in the factory-issued Shield was just inconsistent--sometimes let-off was smooth and sometimes it was rough, sometimes it had less resistance, other times it had really heavy resistance. Dry-firing clearly exposed these elements as contributing to poor system performance--the gun and me. These factors will make most of us throw rounds as we shoot a trigger action that is sometime easy to squeeze of and sometime pretty difficult to squeeze off, and therefore unpredictable as to when let-off might occur. Practice with such a gun is not going to give the best results--the gun itself needs to be improved.
Check out other postings on how other shooters and I improved the pistol by installing the Apex trigger and sear kit.
Let-off on my pistol is now smooth, consistent in terms of required pressure, and I recently posted an image showing a 5-shot group measuring 3/4-inch edge-to-edge with the .40SW Shield. (Of course, I was resting my forearms on sandbags to get the closest possible grouping with a hand-held grip--not having a machine rest available--wonder if a machine rest would yield a one-round .40-inch diameter single hole?)
I went through some similar angst when I first got the Shield.
First, being a 1911 shooter, the trigger is just inherently different on the Shield, and I was "all over the place" for much of the first session on the range. It did get better near the end of that session, but...
Second, the trigger and release action in the factory-issued Shield was just inconsistent--sometimes let-off was smooth and sometimes it was rough, sometimes it had less resistance, other times it had really heavy resistance. Dry-firing clearly exposed these elements as contributing to poor system performance--the gun and me. These factors will make most of us throw rounds as we shoot a trigger action that is sometime easy to squeeze of and sometime pretty difficult to squeeze off, and therefore unpredictable as to when let-off might occur. Practice with such a gun is not going to give the best results--the gun itself needs to be improved.
Check out other postings on how other shooters and I improved the pistol by installing the Apex trigger and sear kit.
Let-off on my pistol is now smooth, consistent in terms of required pressure, and I recently posted an image showing a 5-shot group measuring 3/4-inch edge-to-edge with the .40SW Shield. (Of course, I was resting my forearms on sandbags to get the closest possible grouping with a hand-held grip--not having a machine rest available--wonder if a machine rest would yield a one-round .40-inch diameter single hole?)
Der Biermeister
Member
Shielder
You are preaching to the choir here -- I am not the one with the problem, and yes, I've done everything to my Shield, including the Apex trigger mod, to make it an exceptionally accurate weapon.
The OP (Jambayzie) is the one having the difficulty. If you look at the picture he provided, the rear sight is clearly not centered as it is off to the left. I could be wrong, but I don't believe he has attemped any adjustment on it yet.
I also have no explanation for S&W's caution in the Shield manual that starts off with "The rear sight is not adjustable. No attempt should be made to move the rear sight on this model." It is those words, however, that led me to think in terms of the positioning of the set screw not having a lot of adjustable territory (left to right). BEFORE the OP attempts to correct the accuracy of his gun by adjusting the front sight, he needs to find out why his rear sight is so visually off, and get it corrected. After he does that, I would then re-center the front sight, give it a range test, and then ...... if needed ... make minor adjustments to the front sight only.
Biermeister--
I know you were not the one with the problem, and basically just replied to you as the last person to address his need, and in agreement with you.
I won't pretend to know why S&W says not to try and adjust the rear sight, except to say that the gunsmith who installed my Tru-Glo sights told me that it was unusually difficult to get the old sight out. Maybe the factory locks it in really tight with Loctite to try and make sure it does not shoot loose?
Great forum here--and different perspective from folks who have questions and issues, and good inputs from those who have knowledge and experience to help them.
And pretty much civil unlike some forums where people get frustrated or angry and go off on personal attacks which detract from the purpose. As we all know, the move to impersonal electronic communications has led to intentional or unintentional sharpening of language used in communications and acrimony where if face-to-face and verbal there would be empathy, understanding, and even agreement.
I know you were not the one with the problem, and basically just replied to you as the last person to address his need, and in agreement with you.
I won't pretend to know why S&W says not to try and adjust the rear sight, except to say that the gunsmith who installed my Tru-Glo sights told me that it was unusually difficult to get the old sight out. Maybe the factory locks it in really tight with Loctite to try and make sure it does not shoot loose?
Great forum here--and different perspective from folks who have questions and issues, and good inputs from those who have knowledge and experience to help them.
And pretty much civil unlike some forums where people get frustrated or angry and go off on personal attacks which detract from the purpose. As we all know, the move to impersonal electronic communications has led to intentional or unintentional sharpening of language used in communications and acrimony where if face-to-face and verbal there would be empathy, understanding, and even agreement.
Der Biermeister
Member
Shielder
Haven't heard from the OP in quite a while now. I am wondering what he has done to rectify the problem?
Haven't heard from the OP in quite a while now. I am wondering what he has done to rectify the problem?
Okay, here it is. I took my Shield back to the store I bought it from. The smith was there. I showed him the weapon. He agreed, the rear sight was off. He took it in the back for about 10 minutes and came back and said "well the front sight was not so good, either, try this. Put a few downrange and tell me what you think. You bought the gun here, adjustments are free." He also coached me on my grip and trigger technique.
Within minutes on the range, I was putting groups of 3 and 4 on top of each other. Not all on the bullseye, but within 3-4 inches of it. Hell, I never set out to be an olympic target shooter, but if I hit a BG 3 inches from his heart 3 times, I'm good enough.
So to all you "old skool" experts who said "Must be you and your technique, it's not the gun, it's YOU!" I say "HA"
The notion that the almighty Smith & Wesson could possibly ship a weapon that is not 100% accurate is dispelled, de-mystified, and debunked.
My Shield is now quite accurate. I even hit the red once at 100' ( ok, i missed wide by 6 or so inches the other 5 times, but I hit the paper)
Within minutes on the range, I was putting groups of 3 and 4 on top of each other. Not all on the bullseye, but within 3-4 inches of it. Hell, I never set out to be an olympic target shooter, but if I hit a BG 3 inches from his heart 3 times, I'm good enough.
So to all you "old skool" experts who said "Must be you and your technique, it's not the gun, it's YOU!" I say "HA"
The notion that the almighty Smith & Wesson could possibly ship a weapon that is not 100% accurate is dispelled, de-mystified, and debunked.
My Shield is now quite accurate. I even hit the red once at 100' ( ok, i missed wide by 6 or so inches the other 5 times, but I hit the paper)
ginzo
Member
Great you solved your problem, some of the guys here know what they are talking about. Mostly, it is the shooter.
One of them suggested this drill to fine tune your grip/sight picture/trigger control technique, worked for me. I also don't care for the bulls eye, just want to hit what I point/aim at. For me it's practice, practice, practice, so maybe I won't have to stop and "think" if the need ever arises.
Trigger practice Dry Fire .22 casing - YouTube
One of them suggested this drill to fine tune your grip/sight picture/trigger control technique, worked for me. I also don't care for the bulls eye, just want to hit what I point/aim at. For me it's practice, practice, practice, so maybe I won't have to stop and "think" if the need ever arises.
Trigger practice Dry Fire .22 casing - YouTube
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