A neat little .22 Kit Gun

[BlackAgnes]

Latest find--

---a three-screw, non-model-marked, modified I-Frame, 2" Kit Gun shipped in March of 1957--a few speckles, but a nice gun nonetheless.

Tim

 

[crsides]

I love 'em

Nice pic too.



Charlie

 

[greystonedog]

I love them too.I note that your gun has one pin flush and 1 proud on the receiver rear below the sight. My data base shows this was done only 23,434- 25, XXX. Does yours fall in that range? Earlier and later guns had both pins proud.

 

[BlackAgnes]

Mine is #261XX. Just a bit later.

Tim

 

[DCWilson]

Dang, Tim. That IS neat!

I still don't have a postwar transitional or Model of 1953 Kit Gun. If I saw one like that at my LGS, I'd whip out the checkbook immediately.

The only design aspect of the 1953 design that I haven't particularly cared for in the past is the ramp front sight. But the rest of that package is so attractive that I could probably get past that blade.

Does the adjustable rear sight really serve a major purpose on a gun with a two inch barrel?

Nice score. Envious.

 

[tekarra]

Oh, that is sweet.

 

[TNDave]

Very trick!

 

[Nevadadvx]

Nice little .22. Could someone school me on "I" frames? Are they smaller than a J?
I just got my first Kit Gun a few days ago, and neat little M 63 and so far, I love it.

 

[BlackAgnes]

David--

I have both (as you know) and I was fortunate to snag this one from an individual.

I'll take a group picture one of these days and post it.

Thanks for the kind words, and good luck in your quest!

Tim

 

[Erich]

What a doll! Great find.

 

[BlackAgnes]

Nevadad--

The original "I" frames had leaf mainsprings and were born with the advent if the .22/32 revolvers. At the time, they were considered heavy frames in the .22 target pistol world.

Later, the "improved" I-frames used coil mainsprings, making them sort-of transitional models--this occurred in the 1950s. They are most often encountered in the .32/38 Terrier Hand Ejector guns, but the Kit Gun Model of 1953 also was an "improved" I-frame, at least until the true J-frames replaced it. If memory serves, the changeover occurred in the late 50s.


The difference between the I and J frames are subtle, but significant. First, the cylinder window and overall frame length is smaller on the I frame, and the cylinder is shorter. The grip frame is shorter as well, so J frame grips do not perfectly interchange.

Interestingly, the first "Chief's Specials" , chambered in .38 Special, combined the longer cylinder and larger cylinder window of the J frame with the abbreviated grip of the I frame! Soon, however, the true J frame was used across the board and continues in production today.

Side by side, the I frame guns are noticeably smaller than the later J frame models, and feel much different in the hand.

These variations are what make this collecting hobby of ours fun and challenging!

Tim

 

[BlackAgnes]

Here are a few pix to help illustrate the differences between "I" and "J" frame revolvers.

This is a comparison of an "Improved I-Frame" Kit Gun Model of 1953, and a modern "J-Frame" Model 63 Kit Gun. Note the differences in frame and cylinder length.

This shows the difference between an "Improved I-Frame Model of 1953" and a pre-war true I-Frame Kit Gun. The earlier gun has a leaf mainspring.

This picture compares an "Improved I-Frame Model of 1953" to an so-called "Transitional" Kit Gun" made postwar with pre-war features, such as a leaf mainspring, no barrel rib, and pre-war sights. This "Transitional" gun was actually shipped a year after the Model of 1953 pictured!

Here are a pair of Kit Guns, "Improved I-Frame", both Models of 1953, one is a four-screw and the other is a three-screw--they are otherwise identical except for barrel length.

I hope this helps to explain the differences in these fine little guns.

Tim

 

[Alchymist]

Wife had one years ago, now that we moved back to PA (from the People's Republic of Maryland), she wants another. Only stickler is the $600 price tag on a new one.

 

[JSR III]

Tim, very nice photos and explanation. For some reason, my brain can never seem to get a handle on these things. Some of these subtle differences combined with exceptions made because S&W found older frames at a later date and produced guns with earlier features only helps to confuse the issue.

I do note that your last photo shows the two proud pins on the four screw and only one on the three screw under the rear sight as Greystonedog pointed out in his post.

 

[BlackAgnes]

Yup--go figure!

I understand that in the early 1950s, some distributors sent back the "Transitional" Kit Guns they were shipped, requesting the Model of 1953.

I wonder if they might now have second thoughts about that, considering the rarity of these "Transitional" guns!!

Tim

 

[Allen-frame]

Dude, she's beautiful. And such a cute little target hammer too.

Regards
Allen

 

[SDH]

Great Job Agnes!

 

[TheHobbyist]

That is pretty cool!

 

[Hondo44]

I love them too.I note that your gun has one pin flush and 1 proud on the receiver rear below the sight. My data base shows this was done only 23,434- 25, XXX. Does yours fall in that range? Earlier and later guns had both pins proud.

Yup--go figure!

Tim

Tim and Greystonedog,
Thank you for the excellent photos and information. I have not observed any guns in the serial range above so I don't dispute or disagree with either of you and thank you for the information. I have studied this pin confusion. 22/32 Guns with one proud pin USUALLY ONLY HAVE ONE PIN which is probably the case Tim for your new acquisition since it's outside Greystonedog's serial range but pls confirm for the record as follows:

If you cock the hammer and look from the rear at the top of the firing in the hammer channel on a two pin example, you will see the 2nd pin crossing over the rear of and retaining/orienting the firing pin which has a flattened surface at the top of its rear tip and a square front striking tip. On a one pin example you will observe that there is no 2nd pin and the firing pin is fully round including a round front striking tip; a different style firing pin. The single (front) pin retains the firing pin plate in the recoil shield.

FULLY ROUND FIRING PINS:
Pre war 22/32 Heavy Frame Target, 22/32 Target ('30s vintage), Kit guns and post war transitional Target and Kit guns have 1 pin and the fully round firing pin.

FLATTENED FIRING PIN:
Starting with the Model of 1953, 2nd improved I frame, the flattened firing pin with the 2nd proud pin was introduced.

RETURN OF THE ROUND FIRING PIN:
The flattened firing pin was subsequently dropped in an engineering change that reused the fully round firing pin of the pre war guns with one proud pin on the side of the frame. I have not been able to pinpoint when the change was made and of course like every other S&W change it was a transitional event. However, I have a sense that the return to one single pin (proud) with fully round firing pin coincides approximately with the change from the I frame Mod 34 to the J frame Mod 34 identified with a "-1" in 1960. I have not observed any J frame 22/32 kit guns with two pins, proud or otherwise.

CAUTION, BEWARE OF REFINISHED GUNS:
Refinished Mod 1953 Kit Guns originally having two proud pins will often be encountered with the forward pin proud and the smaller rear pin or both pins polished flush. The 2nd pin flush can be construed to be an original factory variation and may be as you say, Greystonedog, if observed on a non-refinished gun. I would love to know if any of the guns in the serial number range in your data base were refinished but don't know if you recorded that.

NOT DOCUMENTED ANYWHERE:
This 2 pin/1 pin issue will not be found anywhere in the Jink's or SCSW books.

I hope this helps and as usual I am always open to further evidence in the unending pursuit of complete knowledge of S&W firearms.

 

[Hondo44]

Nevadad--
The difference between the I and J frames are subtle, but significant. First, the cylinder window and overall frame length is smaller on the I frame, and the cylinder is shorter. The grip frame is shorter as well, so J frame grips do not perfectly interchange.
Tim

Tim,
All I frame guns have the shorter cylinder and frame window but all I frames do not have the shorter grip frame.
Since there is actually two I frames in the post war 22/32 evolution, the Transitional guns had the small grip but the Mod of 1953 improved I frame has the large grip (J frame size) as shown in your 2nd photo above.

Therefore Mod 1953 I frame grips do interchange exactly with J frame grips.