A newbie to AR-15 and S&W.. some questions

[hdwhit]

Wanderling wrote:
It has a fixed A2 style front post and a flip rear sight with a peep hole. At 50 yards I could barely see the 2" bullseye (the diffraction caused by the peep hole didn't help my eyes to focus either). At 100 yards I'm lucky to see the target.

As cyphertext pointed out, you may have your eye too far back from the peephole. On one of my M&P-15s the sight was about a third of the way up the receiver so I had to take it off and move it further back.

Interestingly, the video cyphertext posted shows an M-16 with carrying handle and integrated rear sight. On one of my M&P-15s, I removed the backup sight entirely and added a carrying handle with adjustable A3-style rear sight. It works very well and I never worry about batteries.

Where I shoot, the longest open space is 225 meters and that's where I set up my shooting range. All the other open areas are smaller, so most of my shooting is done at 100 meters or less and iron sights are more than sufficient for that.

 

[Wanderling]

This is a lousy snapshot, and it's an AR10 style gun, not an AR15, but it will illustrate the point. With tall AR15 style rings, a scope with a small enough occular (eyepiece bell), and the ability to mount the rear ring far enough forward to allow enough Picatinny slots to be free to mount a rear sight, yes, it is possible to mount a folding backup sight. While a folding backup sight is not mounted in the pic above, there is room for one. You just have to use the right combination of parts. Some cantilever monolithic scope mounts will work, and some of these have quick detach levers. Some rings do too.



That's a mighty tall order for anything with any quality.

Since you mentioned a scope as well as a red dot, and a $200 budget, perhaps you might consider spending an extra $129 and get an illuminated reticle scope set up specifically for AR15s. Most places retail this scope for $329.

Vortex Optics - Strike Eagle 1-6x24 AR-BDC

Millet makes a similar scope that retails for $299.

Millett - Designated Marksman Scope

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. It was an "either / or" decision, but after getting all the advice and information (thank you all) I decided to go with a 3-9x scope, as I think this setup would be more fun at 50-100 yards.

Anyway, I decided to stop measurebating this to death, and ordered a Nikon Bushmaster 3-9 scope with offset mount rings. The next question is, if this doesn't clear the rear sight, should I get a more expensive Aero mount, a riser (which seems like it could create problems with too many things stacked up and prone to shaking loose) or just take that rear sight off altogether. Would it hold zero if I re-attached it in the same T slot later on ?

 

[Brian in Oregon]

For a 3-9x scope, I like the Leupold Mark AR. The elevation knob is calibrated for 55 gr bullets, and you can order custom knobs for other bullets weights, cartridges, etc.

 

[cyphertext]

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. It was an "either / or" decision, but after getting all the advice and information (thank you all) I decided to go with a 3-9x scope, as I think this setup would be more fun at 50-100 yards.

Anyway, I decided to stop measurebating this to death, and ordered a Nikon Bushmaster 3-9 scope with offset mount rings. The next question is, if this doesn't clear the rear sight, should I get a more expensive Aero mount, a riser (which seems like it could create problems with too many things stacked up and prone to shaking loose) or just take that rear sight off altogether. Would it hold zero if I re-attached it in the same T slot later on ?

If you got a cantilever mount that is made for mounting to an AR, it should be fine... if not, just remove the rear sight... you can't use it while the scope is on the rifle anyway.

 

[Wanderling]

If you got a cantilever mount that is made for mounting to an AR, it should be fine... if not, just remove the rear sight... you can't use it while the scope is on the rifle anyway.

I know, just didn't want to mess with re-sighting it - no idea if it will hold zero if I just plop it back in the same place.

 

[cyphertext]

I know, just didn't want to mess with re-sighting it - no idea if it will hold zero if I just plop it back in the same place.

If you get it back in the same rail spot with the same tension to tighten it, it will be close.

 

[Wanderling]

I suspect that part of your issue is that you aren't using the sights correctly... I bet your eye is too far from the peep sight. You should be up close to it. The military teaches nose to charging handle.

Also, you want to focus on the front sight. The target should be fuzzy, but you should be able to dissect the target with the sight.

Fundamentals of Rifle Marksmanship (1999) - YouTube

Came here to thank you again. I had a little extra time today so I pulled out the gun & changed the stock extension to where I had my nose very close to the handle. Of course this made all the difference. I probably won't have a chance to fire it for another week but I was able to see right away what I was doing wrong. It feels so much more natural looking through the sights now. I did watch the video, too. Thanks again !

 

[cyphertext]

Came here to thank you again. I had a little extra time today so I pulled out the gun & changed the stock extension to where I had my nose very close to the handle. Of course this made all the difference. I probably won't have a chance to fire it for another week but I was able to see right away what I was doing wrong. It feels so much more natural looking through the sights now. I did watch the video, too. Thanks again !

Glad I could help! Happy shooting!

 

[Wanderling]

My red dot is absolutely lined up with my front A2 sight.
About the cosmetic issue, it's a new rifle. You DO want what you paid for, correct? If it were my rifle I would be on the phone first thing tomorrow morning telling S&W to send me a shipping label!
I know, some of you are saying,"If it doesn't effect the way it shoots I wouldn't worry about it." My reply would then be,"Did you pay for my rifle? NO! I paid for it, and if S&W F'ED up my rifles finish, then they can just make it right!"
Drop the mic..........

So, S&W did send me a return shipping slip, but I decided to try and fix it myself. Got some Aluminum Black, covered the scratched up portion & some around it (looked ugly as sin when it dried), then took a fine steel wool pad and a can of automotive paint polish, and 20 min later it all looked like new. Saves me a trip to the post office and two weeks of wait, or more.

 

[Wanderling]

Yes the front sight disappears starting at 2X so any scope you like will work fine. Here's my latest AR 15 with a Nikon P223 scope in 3-9x40mm.

You and the others were right, of course, the front sight is invisible at 3x.

I do have a question. Cyphertext had posted the instructional video that said you have to keep your nose close to the charging handle when using the iron sights to achieve best sight picture. Wouldn't it than make sense to position the scope to maintain roughly the same stock length & the same distance from face to the rear of the scope ? Even if simply to maintain consistency ? Seems a lot of people position the end of that scope a bit farther back than I did.

 

[cyphertext]

You and the others were right, of course, the front sight is invisible at 3x.

I do have a question. Cyphertext had posted the instructional video that said you have to keep your nose close to the charging handle when using the iron sights to achieve best sight picture. Wouldn't it than make sense to position the scope to maintain roughly the same stock length & the same distance from face to the rear of the scope ? Even if simply to maintain consistency ? Seems a lot of people position the end of that scope a bit farther back than I did.

Yes, when mounting a scope, you should still use the same, consistent cheek weld you use with irons and mount the scope forward enough for proper eye relief. This will also move the scope forward enough to help ease getting to the charging handle. Cantilever mounts made for the AR make it easier to mount the scope in this manner.

 

[Wanderling]

Yes, when mounting a scope, you should still use the same, consistent cheek weld you use with irons and mount the scope forward enough for proper eye relief. This will also move the scope forward enough to help ease getting to the charging handle. Cantilever mounts made for the AR make it easier to mount the scope in this manner.

Thanks, that's exactly what I did, but the photos like the one I re-posted threw me off Well, I'm sure that just like with sporting rifles, there's no hard rules, just preferences Just was curious as to why so many people put the scope to where it protrudes behind the charging handle. I made sure mine was positioned such that I could just take it off and use the rear sights (using the technique you posted earlier) and not have to change the way I hold the gun.

 

[Wanderling]

Anyway, here it is ! Haven't had a chance to zero in the sight yet, it's been freezing here. But this is final, not going to start throwing tacticool stuff on it, to me it's perfect as it is. Well, maybe a sling. And a better pistol grip.. one day.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

You and the others were right, of course, the front sight is invisible at 3x.

I do have a question. Cyphertext had posted the instructional video that said you have to keep your nose close to the charging handle when using the iron sights to achieve best sight picture. Wouldn't it than make sense to position the scope to maintain roughly the same stock length & the same distance from face to the rear of the scope ? Even if simply to maintain consistency ? Seems a lot of people position the end of that scope a bit farther back than I did.

Put the scope where it lines comfortably and repeatedly for you when shouldering quickly at all power levels, biasing towards the lower power end for quick shooting.

I physically cannot get my nose to the rear of the receiver. I have three fused vertebrae in my neck.

The scope on my Remington R15 is much further back than how most people like it. I wouldn't mind it back a little more, but the mount I'm using is at its limit. Works. Maybe some day I'll wind up reversing a cantilever mount for another inch.

Here's a more extreme example. This is what it takes for me to properly and comfortably shoot a Remington 700.

So don't worry about what is "correct", do what works for you.

Make the gun conform to you, not you conform to the gun.

 

[fyimo]

You and the others were right, of course, the front sight is invisible at 3x.

I do have a question. Cyphertext had posted the instructional video that said you have to keep your nose close to the charging handle when using the iron sights to achieve best sight picture. Wouldn't it than make sense to position the scope to maintain roughly the same stock length & the same distance from face to the rear of the scope ? Even if simply to maintain consistency ? Seems a lot of people position the end of that scope a bit farther back than I did.

For me with the stock fully extended when I shoulder the AR-15 I have a perfect circle with the reticles where they were when I zeroed the rifle.

 

[cyphertext]

Put the scope where it lines comfortably and repeatedly for you when shouldering quickly at all power levels, biasing towards the lower power end for quick shooting.

I physically cannot get my nose to the rear of the receiver. I have three fused vertebrae in my neck.

The scope on my Remington R15 is much further back than how most people like it. I wouldn't mind it back a little more, but the mount I'm using is at its limit. Works. Maybe some day I'll wind up reversing a cantilever mount for another inch.

Here's a more extreme example. This is what it takes for me to properly and comfortably shoot a Remington 700.

So don't worry about what is "correct", do what works for you.

Make the gun conform to you, not you conform to the gun.

Brian, while you may have a limiting factor that does not allow you to follow correct and proper technique, I don't think advising a shooter to set up his rifle in the same manner as yours is sound advice. The scopes on your rifles are so far back, proper eye relief in a sitting or prone field position would be impossible.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

Brian, while you may have a limiting factor that does not allow you to follow correct and proper technique, I don't think advising a shooter to set up his rifle in the same manner as yours is sound advice. The scopes on your rifles are so far back, proper eye relief in a sitting or prone field position would be impossible.

That is NOT what I said. Let me refresh:

Put the scope where it lines comfortably and repeatedly for you when shouldering quickly at all power levels, biasing towards the lower power end for quick shooting.

So don't worry about what is "correct", do what works for you.

Make the gun conform to you, not you conform to the gun.

There is nothing in that which advises to set up the gun same manner I did.