A pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester thread **New info 3/10/11**

[model70hunter]

Here's a 300 H&H that I re-stocked from a block many years ago.

Tim

Tim, it looks like you turned the patter over and go the cheek piece on the wrong side. Just kidding, beautiful stock job.

 

[kscardsfan]

Got my grail M-70

While prowling my local pawn, gun, reloading, and payday loan store for .38/.357 dies, I spied what appeared to be a model 70. I went and picked the rifle up off the rack and sure enough it was a pre 64 in the only one of 2 (potentially 3) calibers I truly "had" to have in a model 70. A .270 made in '58 or '59 factory drilled and tapped for mounts listed for $650. I left it overnight with the promise if it was still there after lunch the next day I would take it home. I offered him $550 cash out the door and took it home that afternoon. I need to lighten the trigger pull up, which apparently will require me to loosen two 1/4" to get it down to about 3.5lbs. I am currently in the hunt for a period correct scope and mounts to make it into my Jack O'Connor rifle. It has battle scars and marks etc that take it out of the collector realm, but that's what made it more appealing to someone like me who plans to hunt with it and use it not just stare at it in the safe. I'll include a few pics for ya'lls enjoyment.
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/kscardsfan_10/M-70/DSC03242.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/kscardsfan_10/M-70/DSC03244.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/kscardsfan_10/M-70/DSC03247.jpg

 

[Brotus2]

kscardsfan: I have an absolutely pristine 1955 Weaver KV (El Paso) that you might be interested in.

Question: I want to put a Harris Bipod on my 1952 Model 70 but for the life of me I can't figure out how it would be attached to the fore end sling swival screw hole. Came with factory sling swivel stud with intregal sling loop. Help!!!

 

[rchall]

I bought two 70's from older gentlemen I knew, one was a standard
grade 30-06 from 1949 and the other was a Super Grade '06 from
1950 with a B&L scope in adjustable mounts. Both were in excellent
original condition. I traded a Win. model 12 16 ga. with a 30" barrel
and solid rib for a Transition .270 Model 70 from 1947 in exc. condition
at a gun show.

 

[jphendren]

I currently have two Pre-64 Model 70's, a 1937 standard grade .375 H&H Magnum, and a 1954 standard grade .30-'06. Below are some images of the .375 H&H Magnum. It has a Lyman No. 48 WJS receiver sight, Lyman No. 6 folding leaf rear sight, as well as a Griffin & Howe quick release scope mount with a Lyman Alaskan scope. The barrel on this rifle is a heavy target weight, known in collector circles as a "straight taper."

Jared

 

[kscardsfan]

Does anyone know why they had that bump in the barrel where they mounted the rear sight? Seems like that would really be hard to manufacture and would play hell with barrel harmonics etc.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Does anyone know why they had that bump in the barrel where they mounted the rear sight? Seems like that would really be hard to manufacture and would play hell with barrel harmonics etc.

On the older guns that have it, that boss accepts the front mounting screw that attaches the barreled action to the stock. There are three; at that point, one forward of the magazine, and one back of the trigger guard.

 

[rchall]

jphendren, bet that .375 will sure get your attention at
the shooting bench!!

 

[kscardsfan]

On the older guns that have it, that boss accepts the front mounting screw that attaches the barreled action to the stock. There are three; at that point, one forward of the magazine, and one back of the trigger guard.

Still seems like it would be much thougher to profile on the lathe than just a straight tube with express sights soldered on. I haven't had a chance to shoot mine yet, but I am hoping to next time I have days off and can get home.

 

[Shorty4T]

Leonard, very nice rifle. Just out of curiosity a 416 what? There were only one period 416 for a pre '64, the only one that really come to mind is the Rigby which I don't think will fit in the Winchester action. While I realize it doesn't have to be a period cartridge. The 416 wildcat started hitting in the early '70 such as the Taylor.

Of course now days we have an abundance of 416s; Weatherby, Remington, Ruger, A-Square, etc. All except the Weatherby pretty much replicate the Rigby ballistics on varying action lengths.

Cheers,
Sam

 

[Leonard]

Sam,

The only thing pre-64 on the gun is the bolt and receiver. It is a 416 Remington. You are correct a Rigby will not fit in a 375 length action.

I have used both 416 Remington and Rigby on large game and anything doing 2300 fps has plenty of penetration. What I like about the 416 Remington is that it is much faster as it is a shorter action. The pre 64 action is my favorite and the most classic looking.

Some of the early 416's like the Taylor I believe are based on 458 brass and operate at a very high pressure, the longer 375 case or cylindrical brass make for a better cartridge.

 

[Shorty4T]

Thanks for the info Leonard, I'm a 416 fan as well, however I chose the Weatherby. I was on the fence when the Remington and Weatherby came about in the late 80's, but settled on the Weatherby. The Rigby at the time the Remington and Weatherby was released was had to find ammunition for unless you reload. The resurection of the 416 has sparked a lot of interest in these cartridges, including some new wildcats. I wish I had the extra cash to go spend a month in the bush, but it's just not probable.

I would likely look at something a little different to hunt Africa, I like the Lott a great deal, but a 500 on the Weatherby case (500 A-Square) is something I've been looking at too. It would be an easy conversion on an existing Mark V. I too am a fan of big case cartridges, thus my choice of the Weatherby.

Again very nice rifle!!

Cheers,
Sam

 

[Texas Star]

What is the availibility of the other .416 ammo if the airline loses your ammo, or you need more than expected? Is the original Rigby ammo easily found in the African hunting countries?

I definitely would avoid wildcats, for the ammo supply issue.

T-Star

 

[Shorty4T]

The 416 is readily available from what I have read on the subject, specifically the Rem and Rigby. The Rigby was near extiction when Remington released thier 416 in '88 and Weatherby in '89. However since then Hornady has resurected the Rigby by offering factory ammunition.

I understand the 416 is a popular cartridge with PHs, specifically the Rem for the reason that Leonard mentioned above. It's quite a handy rifle in that caliber. It's unfortunate that it has become a somewhat obscrue round in the bigbore community. Remington produces brass for this round on an irregular schedule which makes getting brass/loaded rounds difficult at times. Those that I know with this round tend to hoard brass for this reason.

The Rigby has grown in popularity since the early '90s, As mentioned it is a large case so pressures will be lower for any given charge to reach the 400 gr bullet to 2400 fps compared to rounds like the Rem/Ruger/Taylor. Likewise for the Weatherby round since it is simply a belted Rigby case.

Weatherby will push the envelope as with their other cartridges, factory ammunition advertises 2700 fps. The Rigby has the case capacity for this but it has been proven in the field that the additional speed isn't required...At least that's what they say.

I can't imagine not being able to find the Remington or Rigby round when you decide to cross the pond.

Cheers,
Sam

 

[Leonard]

Shorty, I have hunted with a 500 A Square in a rifle Frank Wells re did and re-stocked. I am not an A Square fan. Fred Wells and some others had wildcat 50 calibers on the 460 case in my opinion 50 caliber puts the big 460 case to better use than a 45 caliber. I used a 707 grain Barnes super solid the recoil while not noticed during a hunting scenario is very severe . The 50 caliber x 460 can be rated as a stopping rifle.

Most of my big game hunting was with a Jeffrey 475 # 2 which was a hammer. I feel the 416s are a minimum but effective big game hunting round. I would not hesitate to do a one caliber one rifle safari with a 416 far superior to the 375.

 

[Texas Star]

I'd feel a little silly shooting a springbok with a .416...what a pity that it's so expensive to take more than one rifle now.

 

[Shorty4T]

Thanks for the info Leonard, it's always nice to chat with people that have the practicle experience. I can't say I'm an A-Square fan at all, even when I was a kid I had an affection for the larger cases that Weatherby presented with the 378 and 460.

I remember seeing the 475 A&M Mag in a book wanting one, this too was based on the belted 378/460 case. This cartridge has always been a wildcat since it was developed by an Arizona rifle company, Atkinson & Marquart. While I think the published ballistics were exagerated it sparked a love for the big guns.

I've always wondered why Weatherby never released their own 500. Early on the Weatherby cartridges got some bad press simply for the fact that bullets of the era where never meant to go as fast a Roy was pushing them. However that is much less of a problem today with premium bullets. I think Weatherby could have made a big dent in the 500/510 market with an honest to goodness stopping rifle based on the 378 case.

I also believe that the 378 is too much of a good thing, A good friend has one, while recoil on it is stiff it's certainly managable. It's a little sharper recoil than the 416 and 460. While I do believe that Roy got the 375 that was initially introduced perfect. Another rifle on my short list, 375 bee.

Texas Star, shooting smaller animals with the medium/big bores doesn't damage much meet, simply for the fact that small game doesn't have the bone structure to make the round do what it's supposed to, expand. Shooting Southern whitetails with a 416 leaves a LOT of meat.

Cheers,
Sam

 

[Leonard]

I'd feel a little silly shooting a springbok with a .416...what a pity that it's so expensive to take more than one rifle now.

Not as silly as you would look shooting at a buffalo with a 270

 

[FlYFiShErMaN]

Sold my 1952, M-70 a few months ago. Its been turned into 3 pistols now. I am through shooting animals, at least the ones with 4 legs. I also just sold a Paul Jagger built, 1909 Mauser in .35 Ack Imp. Its turned into a few more pistols. I now only have revolvers in my safe.

 

[magnum308]

I am new to this forum. I am from Australia and have been a pre 64 M70 fan for some years. Only have two thought, both featherweights in .270 Win and .308 Win but would love to get more.

These rifles are rare here and both mine were imported from USA at various times in the past, when importing these rifles (or any guns for that matter) was a lot easier. Got my .270 in 2005 and it is a real gem.

I took both Tahr and Chamois on a New Zealand alpine hunt earlier this year with the 270.

I would like to join forums dedicated to these rifles. Anyone know any?

Cheers and God Bless,
Magnum308