A S&W 22 revolver hen's tooth: The post-war TRANSITIONAL 22/32 kit gun

[Göring's S&W]

Here is a S&W 22 you don't see everyday (unless you are one of the lucky few that owns one). This is a post war transitional kit gun from 1952 +/-, SN 562635. There is some light wear noted, and some genius took off the side plate and buggered the screws, but other than that, the metal is very nice. The grips do not match unfortunately. I suspect it should have the post war I frame service grips.

These post war transitional 22/32s were made after WWII until the new improved model of 1953 arrived (later the model 34). The post war transitional kit guns continue from the pre war I frame SN range, and are usually found in the range of 534XXX to approx 600XXX. The distinguishing features other than SN range include: I frame 22lr, 4in barrel (SCSW 3rd mentions some were made with 2in barrel) pre war adj rear sight (fitted to the top strap), the USRA aka "pocket sight" front sight (also found on some pre war kit guns), and a dull matte finish which is found on all S&W post war transitional guns. I am told that some post war transitional kit guns had a patridge front sight but I have yet to see one of those.

I purchased this gun from a pawnshop online that identified it as a "M&P 22 CTG" from the 1950s. I could have had it for a real bargain, but of course, someone in the "loop" found it and and a bidding duel ensued at the end of the auction. My shots err bids were true, and so I won the duel. I sent a letter request to Roy a few weeks back. I have been told he is very behind on letters.

I'm fond of the S&W pre war finish, as many of us are, and I would love to own a nice pre war kit gun. This duller post war trans finish may not look as pretty, but IMO (and many others) I may land 2 or 3 pre war kit guns before I find another reasonably priced post war transitional kit gun. There is an, how do you say it, an extremely ambitious seller who has one for sale on gunbroker right now. I don't suspect he will get his asking price, but you never know. If you're after one of these, there are not many to choose from.

Roy is on record for saying there were approx. 1500 of these post war transitional 22/32 kit guns made, but that is hard to believe when there are supposedly there were just as many pre war kit guns manufactured, yet the pre war kit guns are much more commonly encountered. IMO, there must be less than 1000 of these post war transitional kit guns, if not much less than 1000 - but somewhere in the hundreds anyway.

Hopefully this is a prelude of what other S&Ws I may be getting for my collection in 2014...

Enjoy...

Too bad someone who didn't know what they were doing went inside the gun Still, all in all, its a great addition.

Here are some closeups of the USRA aka "pocket sight" front sight. It is basically a pre war half moon, with a notch cut. It is however wider than most pre war front sights.

The rear sight is of the pre war variety. To my knowledge, this is one of the only post war S&Ws with a pre war target rear sight which was fit to the top strap and numbered to the gun. The other examples being the post war Regulation Police Target (196 made), and the super scarce pre improved I frame 22/32 target

Because the gun has a pre war rear sight, but came out in the post war period, it of course requires a special SAT. The SATs for these should either be black oxide knurled with a narrow tip, or the nickel plated steel knurled with the narrow tip. Here is what the screwdriver for these looks like, pictured below, on the left. This SAT is very scarce because it came only with these specific kit guns (or the post war Regulation Police targets or the post war 22/32 targets that are pre improved I frame). The later model of 1953 (pre 34) 22/32 kit guns had the new for the time micrometer rear sight and thus came with a standard for the period SAT.

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8-21-14 Got the letter about 2 weeks ago. It went to H.H. Harris - which is cool, if that's even accurate For some reason, the letter is about the SN 562486 while my kit gun is 562635 - I only have one of these of course. I'm not sure what happened? I know I would not have wrote the SN down wrong on the request form. I guess I will be sending the letter back.

Here is my post war transitional family photo (as of 8-21-14 - always looking for more trans guns), starting top and going clockwise, a 38/44 Outdoorsman S 71XXX which lettered as shipped in 1946, the gun of this thread, S 66XXX post war model of 1926, a post war trans 22/32 kit gun 562XXX which shipped Aug 1952??? and a 38/44 Heavy Duty S 67XXX which also lettered as shipped in 1946.

 

[DCWilson]

An excellent score: congratulations.

You are right about their rarity. I have been able to handle 15-20 prewar Kit Guns over the last several years, but I have never been within viewing distance of a postwar Transitional KG. If there were no photos and narratives like yours, I would have no reason to believe they even existed.

Envious!

 

[Engine49guy]

Beautiful piece,
Im still learning about Post war I frames but am curious as you stated
"The post war transitional kit guns continue from the pre war I frame SN range (32 hand ejector, 38 terrier, 22/32 HFT, etc), and are usually found in the range of 534XXX to approx 600XXX"

Perhaps .38 S&W Terriers had a different serial range than the .22lr and .32's as my Dec 1950 shipped .38 "Terrier" 5 screw with service grips is a 5 digit Serial 58078 and 4 screw 1955 "New I frame" Pre Model 32 .38 "Terrier" is Serial 77062

Nice Kit gun !

 

[Göring's S&W]

Perhaps .38 S&W Terriers had a different serial range than the .22lr and .32's as my Dec 1950 shipped .38 "Terrier" 5 screw with service grips is a 5 digit Serial 58078 and 4 screw 1955 "New I frame" Pre Model 32 .38 "Terrier" is Serial 77062

You are right - my mistake. I corrected my post. The 38 terrier SN range is different.

 

[1Aspenhill]

Jim,
Great find! Is that the original box in the pic with the screwdrivers? If not, would it have come in a maroon 2 piece box or the red box?
Thanks for sharing!
Bill

 

[Göring's S&W]

Great find! Is that the original box in the pic with the screwdrivers? If not, would it have come in a maroon 2 piece box or the red box?

That is an original box but i borrowed that pic from a forum member, it is not mine. I think some early post war trans kit guns could have shipped in the maroon 2 piece boxes. I would also think that some early post war trans kit guns had the LERK with a one line address.

Here is a good thread that shows a boxed example:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/210802-post-war-transition-kit-gun-rare.html

 

[Hondo44]

I suspect it should have the post war I frame service grips.

These post war transitional 22/32s were made after WWII until the new improved model of 1953 arrived (later the model 34). The post war transitional kit guns continue from the pre war I frame SN range, and are usually found in the range of 534XXX to approx 600XXX. The distinguishing features other than SN range include: I frame 22lr, 4in barrel (SCSW 3rd mentions some were made with 2in barrel) pre war adj rear sight (fitted to the top strap).....

The rear sight is of the pre war variety. To my knowledge, this is the only post war S&W with a pre war target rear sight which was fit to the top strap and numbered to the gun.

Congratulations!! That is truly a beauty and a 'Holy Grail' model to those like me that seek them out. Many of these were shipped after the introduction of the 'New' Model of 1953 and interesting to note that sometimes they were sent back by dealers whose customers wanted the 'NEW' Model I frame.

I can state with confidence, that although, as you say, the 'Mini' Magna stocks are not #'d to your gun, they are probably the correct vintage and style for your KG's serial #. You can confirm that by noting if the rear most sideplate screw under the right stock is flat and not domed like that screw would be if it originally came with round top service stocks.

You probably noted some glaring inaccuracies in the SCSW 3rd on this model, i.e., that the 'Transitional' Kit Gun came with micro click rear sight which of course it did not. The 'Improved I' frame is also confused with the Model of 1953 'NEW' I frame with four screws which began a new serial # range specific to the 22/32 KG and 6" Target versions.

There were no 'Improved I' frame KGs which would have been just like yours but with 5 screws instead of six, because it would have had a coil main spring like the .32 and .38 S&W I frames of the period.

The 'Transitional' KG evolved directly to the 'New' Model of 1953 with 4 screws, coil mainspring, larger trigger guard and 1/8" longer (than the old I frame RB) grip frame. It wasn't until this 'New' model was introduced that the 2" KG was introduced as well as the new style sq butt grip frame, 9/32" longer than the old I frame round butt.

The one other model that I know of with the pre war sight flush fitted to the top strap and numbered (including front sight) to the guns are the 196 'Transitional' .32 4" Regulation Police Target models issued in 1957:

You may also find this study of the 1950 I frame evolution with the above facts and many more not covered in the SCSW helpful:
THE POST WAR I FRAMES EVOLUTION - Smith & Wesson Forum

Thanks for sharing a very nice example of a very hard to find Kit Gun.

 

[OldDominion]

Nice find there Jim. Please post the ship date when you have it. Mine, #560857 shipped in August '52 and like yours has the USRA front sight. I know of two others in the 577*** range that shipped in June and July of '52. Lee

 

[Hondo44]

That is an original box but i borrowed that pic from a forum member, it is not mine. I think some early post war trans kit guns could have shipped in the maroon 2 piece boxes. I would also think that some early post war trans kit guns had the LERK with a one line address.

Jim,

You are correct, even more rare but they do exist and considered pre war/post war guns:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/358417-kit-guns-beaut.html#post137710931


This is not my gun; from the above thread:

Photo courtesy of PALADIN85020

Please do not infer anything from the 'Mini' Magnas on this pre war/post war shipped transitional, apparently reworked at the factory before shipping.

 

[mikepriwer]

Here is a picture of mine, with its original red box. The side plate is not scratched,
but rather is engraved with US Congressman Cecil Kings name.

I do not own these next two guns. This first one belonged to Edward R Murrow.

I don't know the story about this next one.

This next gun may belong to Jim Fisher. Its 1952, with serial numb er 601XXX.

As to the question/comment about other pre-war post-war transition guns, here is my K-22 from
1947, as I recall. Again, the scratches on the side-plate are the factory-engraved name of
Congressman Cecil King.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[Hondo44]

I don't know the story about this next one.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Mike the gun above, # 533362 is a pre war Kit Gun. That number is a very low # from a batch of 225 in the 533351-533575 range that began being shipped September 1939.

 

[Hondo44]

Jim,

By the way, the Transitional Kit Gun like the other I frames both Transitional and Improved I frames were also supplied with the rebated rd butt grip frame and square extension stocks shown here and below:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...216272-post-war-transitional-kit-gun-wow.html

 

[JSR III]

FWIW, 533049 and 534506 are .22/32 HFT's and I have a 2" 22/32 Kit Gun box (unfortunately no gun) that is a blue two piece and numbered 38294 in grease pencil on the bottom.

I only add this to the discussion for informational purposes.

 

[Hondo44]

That box is a find in itself! My 2" # 38929 shipped 1/59 and is a Mod 34 stamped gun. That box (and gun that was in it) must have shipped late 1958 as a stamped Model 34.

 

[Göring's S&W]

As to the question/comment about other pre-war post-war transition guns, here is my K-22 from 1947, as I recall. Again, the scratches on the side-plate are the factory-engraved name of Congressman Cecil King.

Mike,

Judging by the pre war barrel, the pre war hammer, and the pre war rear sight, it looks like you have pictured a K22 Outdoorsman. If this gun shipped in 1947, it must be the latest 22 Outdoorsman to have shipped from S&W. Might you mean its from "1937" instead?

All - very nice photos and great information.

 

[mikepriwer]

Jim

1947. Check out the grips - very early post-WW2 magnas, with lots of grain. It was
presented to Congressman King for his help in arranging to get (perhaps the 2nd) V1
presented to President Truman. Its a zero gun, and there was/is another one very very close in serial number (2 numbers away) that is also a K-22, with all the same parts, etc.
Both guns may have been 22 Outdoorsman before the war, or they may have been just
using up leftover parts. My impression is that the 22/32's in this thread are exactly that,
as well.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[Göring's S&W]

1947. Check out the grips - very early post-WW2 magnas, with lots of grain. It was
presented to Congressman King for his help in arranging to get (perhaps the 2nd) V1
presented to President Truman. Its a zero gun, and there was/is another one very very close in serial number (2 numbers away) that is also a K-22, with all the same parts, etc.
Both guns may have been 22 Outdoorsman before the war, or they may have been just
using up leftover parts. My impression is that the 22/32's in this thread are exactly that, as well.

Mike

That is a very interesting gun. I did notice the grips, but grips can be changed so I didn't put much on those. It has every other feature of a 22 Outdoorsman. Even the finish itself looks to be a high luster blue rather than matte. Of course, the provenance speaks for itself.

Is it possible that these K22s were ordered a few years prior to 1947 and so those 22 Outdoorsmans were used to fulfill the order since the K22 post war short action (first ones shipped 1946) was not even in production yet?

Jim

 

[Modified]

My word, uncheckered rosewood stocks are so amazingly attractive. I really need to find the right J-Frame to put my set on.


Also, just to toss in my contribution, a "Virtual" pre-war Kit gun:

Very curious to see what Jinks has to say about it when he gets down to my letter in his backlog.

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

My word, uncheckered rosewood stocks are so amazingly attractive. I really need to find the right J-Frame to put my set on.


Also, just to toss in my contribution, a "Virtual" pre-war Kit gun:

Very curious to see what Jinks has to say about it when he gets down to my letter in his backlog.

I have the right J Frame...Feel free to send them my way

 

[mikepriwer]

Jim

According to the factory records, the Congressman King gun was requested by the
factory superintendent in early 1947, as a K-22 Outdoorsman, for presentation to
Congressman King. Its thought that, while special presentation guns, they were also
using up spare/extra parts from before WW2.

Regards, Mike Priwer