Accidental discharge in Coconut Creek FL Dunkin Donuts

[shouldazagged]

I also wonder if Mr. Barroso was a bit borracho; but like what gun he was carrying and how, we sur3ely won't know from the simplistic news coverage.

We had a case here a few years ago where a man dropped his NAA mini-revolver in a movie theater lobby and it fired. Scared the styrofoam peanuts out of some people but as I recall didn't wound anybody.

GeoJelly, I think you will like carrying the 442. The Centennial series are nice little guns, reliable, simple and fast to shoot, and damn near impossible to fire accidentally. Frees you from worries about some lawyer or prosecutor claiming you cocked the gun and negligently squeezed off a shot in single action.

 

[Whitwabit]

This is a subject that has been discussed in alot of forums. It is an argument I won't participate in. I do not carry a pistol that is partially cocked regardless what it is called.

LOL .. your the one who brought the subject up !!!

 

[Brasky]

In all this post I haven't seen any reference to a 'safety'? I always carry IWB,holstered,round in chamber, safety on, and cross draw. Disengaging the safety as you acquire the target takes place rapidly, with practice!. An extra measure of security. We aren't living in the Old West anymore. A too Quick of a -Draw and engagement can result in life-changing events. Negative ones. Unless you are a LEO it may be more prudent to either get to cover or get out of Dodge.

A safety is a useless feel good device that more times than not encourages unsafe firearm handling

Manual safeties fail. People forget whether they are on or not. I despise my firearms that have safeties and try to purchase firearms without them whenever possible

 

[Sayoc01]

Years ago I hasd a friend from Israel .We got into a discussion on cocked & locked vs unloaded chamber(his way of edc).He demoed his way,with his Hi Power....pulled,racked the slide & fired(gun empty).He was very fast.Told me hrs.practice! I guess it's how you are trained...
Jim

 

[shouldazagged]

Mister X (post #45), I'm going to make this point and then leave this thread behind.

In a thirty-year police career Old Cop twice had to use his duty weapon in gunfights to save his posterior. Both times he won. Cirillo he wasn't--who is? But if you read Old Cop's posts here you will understand why I pay attention to what he says, despite his not having a dozen notches on his gun.

He has earned better than snide questioning, like other LEO's here who have "seen the elephant". No, I'm not one. But I salute them.

I'm out.

 

[Mister X]

Mister X (post #45), I'm going to make this point and then leave this thread behind.

In a thirty-year police career Old Cop twice had to use his duty weapon in gunfights to save his posterior. Both times he won. Cirillo he wasn't--who is? But if you read Old Cop's posts here you will understand why I pay attention to what he says, despite his not having a dozen notches on his gun.

He has earned better than snide questioning, like other LEO's here who have "seen the elephant". No, I'm not one. But I salute them.

I'm out.

He made a false blanket generalization based on very minimal experience that IIRC took place decades ago. Nothing snide about adding perspective.

 

[model3sw]

I dont' understand how, while ordering coffee and a doughnut a firearm "accidently" discharges. My experience is ... if you don't pull the trigger it won't go off, but, the story is very vague about how this happened.

There is NO excuse for him leaving the scene but he is commended for coming forward immediately afterward.

I don't believe there is anyone amongst us that has not had an accidental discharge at least once in their life. For me, it was at the range, fitting a new shooter's glove and new custom target stocks for the first time with a S&W Model 41 in hand pointed safely DOWN RANGE, thank, God.

PS: watch out for those (us) old farts. LIFE is not a very long time for us if we get in trouble.

 

[Arik]

I agree with you for the most part, but there are no absolutes.

There may not be time and opportunity to chamber a round, but there may very well be. It depends on the skill of the individual and the details of the specific scenario. I've come across some highly skilled individuals who train in the Israeli method and I would never describe them as being unprepared to defend themselves in an emergency defense scenario.

You state that you have "been there", which I take to imply that we should listen to you due to personal experience, but how many times have you "been there"? How many situations as a civilian carrying concealed? Does being victorious in a few street fights make someone an authority on combatives? Very few people have been in a significant number of gunfights. Chicago P.D's Bob Stasch has been in 14. The lessons he's taken away and subsequently recommends are to practice making headshots at close-range using one-handed point shooting. 14 gunfights is fairly substantial, yet I see very few taking his advice.

I'm by no means advocating empty-chamber carry and don't chose it myself, but I do think the idea that there will never be time is false.

How many Israelis were stabbed because they weren't fast enough? Quite a lot. Israelis do that for their own reasons which have been explained and have nothing to do with accidental/negligent discharges.

GUN. LOADED. ALWAYS.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Mister X]

How many Israelis were stabbed because they weren't fast enough? Quite a lot. Israelis do that for their own reasons which have been explained and have nothing to do with accidental/negligent discharges.

GUN. LOADED. ALWAYS.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

And many have handled the situation just fine. I never advocated for C3, I simply challenged an incorrect assertion.

 

[hangnoose]

HOLD ON A SEC,

I believe I have a coup- BANG,OOPS.

 

[armorer951]

With all due respect, I'm wondering why anyone would be fearful of carrying a modern, well designed and manufactured "striker fired" pistol, like the Glock, fully loaded with a live round in the chamber?

Glocks incorporate several passive safeties including the trigger pull rating, the trigger insert and the stiker block. Safe to carry fully loaded. Will not discharge when dropped.

If the factory trigger pull rating is not heavy enough, you can always add a heavier "New York" trigger, or different connector......for up to 11 pounds if needed.

 

[pittpa]

I feel sorry for all involved - and this validates my absolute rule of empty chamber outside the house if I'm carrying an auto. I suppose that habit could cost me dearly at some point - I just make it a point to never go where I would need a h/g ... even though I frequently carry one.

Edited to add: a little clarification. Doesn't take a genius to figure out high risk locations: convenience stores in general and especially after dark (even just for fuel), spray car washes after dark, any Wal-Mart on the wrong side of the tracks after 9AM, liquor stores, any mall near the wrong side of the tracks after 4PM, most of the low-end fast food places after dark. I've reached past 60, avoiding all of these places, and never had a problem. I know the tactical types are going to sneer at this - but it's worked for me so far!!

Well, if you never go where you would need a gun, an empty chamber makes sense.

 

[pittpa]

Regardless of the circumstances, the shooter is a pathetic, irresponsible coward. Leaving the scene and NOT being accountable makes him that in my book.

Some people should not own/carry a gun.

Be safe.

Perhaps he had to get his weed home. In which case that would make him a motivated coward.
(EDIT-I'm thinking he may have needed to change his pants!)
I wonder at what angle any particular must be dropped in order to fire. This happened at a Giant Eagle grocery store here near the Burg. It was apparently a 380 and the bullet did not exit the barrel, the floor being in the way. A couple of people were hit by debris from the tile floor. The gun owner was charged with simple assault and reckless endangerment, but pled to misdemeanor disorderly conduct at the Common Pleas level on 6/25/15.
2 injured when gun falls out of man's fanny pack at Giant Eagle store | WPXI

 

[vipermd]

FL man accidentally shoots woman in donut shop after dropping gun (VIDEO)
He must have tried to grab it, since the glock will not fire without pulling the trigger. Just poor reporting. I see you bought a 640, excellent gun, hope it works well and you never need it, other than practice. As for the one in the chamber if you speak to a Smith or Glock armorer they could explain the inner workings of the firearms. I will not do an explanation since the armorer would do it so much better. Be Safe,

 

[Mistered]

ND: Negligent discharge. Put the blame where it belongs.

Thank you ! - I see the 'AD' words used a little too freely...

 

[STCM(SW)]

You know what, KISS!
And a revolver is just that KISS, start to think and do things is not good in a bad situation...
Most of us do not train for the worst, so go what is simple.....

 

[Wise_A]

Drop-and-grab ND's have nothing to do with the style of the gun you're using, and everything to do with the idiot thing you just did.

It's common practice, and handgun sporting events, to require competitors to leave dropped guns on the ground, and wait for an RSO to pick the gun up.

This is because when you go to pick up a gun, it's at an awkward angle. You'll be embarrassed and surprised, so you won't be paying attention to what you're doing. You'll be in a hurry. It's awful easy, in those circumstances, to slip your finger onto the trigger. And in your rush and surprise, your motor control goes to hell--it's very easy to end up squeezing the trigger.

Or worse, you can grab it as it's still falling.

So at shooting events, the RSO is expected to check to see that the line is safe, take a gander at the handgun to ensure nothing's inside the triggerguard, and then carefully pick up the weapon, keeping the muzzle downrange, before unloading it and handing it to the guy that dropped it.

You hear a lot about guns going off when dropped because it's easier to say that than to admit that you were stupid and tried to grab it up. And people feel it's less incriminating.

In actual fact, I can't think of a modern firearm that isn't drop-safe by design. Revolvers, Glocks, 1911s in good working order--you could load them up and drop them all day (but don't).

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Carrying with an empty chamber? No argument from me.

If a man has come to the conclusion that he is a danger to himself and others carrying a loaded gun I'm inclined to believe him.

 

[AlHunt]

A pistol with an empty chamber is still loaded if there are rounds in the magazine.

If a man (not a police officer) has come to the conclusion that he is in immediate danger everywhere he goes, and needs 24-7 nano-second access to a chambered round, I'm inclined to believe that man is dangerously out of touch with reality.

I'm certainly fine with another person carrying their firearm any way they wish. And I can understand you getting tired of being beaten up over an empty chamber.

However ... an attack is just that. An attack. And it's likely to come out of ambush where you will need the nanosecond reflex. There's just case after case after case where an attack comes in the split second when a person is walking through a doorway, getting in or out of a car or some other moment when their attention is divided.

I know it's all moot now that you've gone to a revolver but I would not count on being alert and aware enough to see an ambush coming, however small the likelihood.

 

[Ranger514]

A pistol with an empty chamber is still loaded if there are rounds in the magazine.

If a man (not a police officer) has come to the conclusion that he is in immediate danger everywhere he goes, and needs 24-7 nano-second access to a chambered round, I'm inclined to believe that man is dangerously out of touch with reality.

As a former agency force on force Simmunitions instructor (now retired) I can testify to the fact that in a reactive shooting scenario, every split second counts when it comes to winning a gun battle. Cycling a slide to chamber a round is a needless and hazardous waste of time and effort that requires the use of fine motor skills.

Situational awareness plays a big role in evaluating and avoiding a threat, and everyone has to decide how they wish to carry, but real-life lessons (not just training) have repeatedly shown that in close quarters gun battles, split seconds count in bringing a firearm to bear against a lethal threat. I'm not giving a predator any advantage, if I can help it. Some might think I'm "...dangerously out of touch with reality." I simply call it "common sense."

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

FL man accidentally shoots woman in donut shop after dropping gun (VIDEO)
He must have tried to grab it, since the glock will not fire without pulling the trigger. Just poor reporting. I see you bought a 640, excellent gun, hope it works well and you never need it, other than practice. As for the one in the chamber if you speak to a Smith or Glock armorer they could explain the inner workings of the firearms. I will not do an explanation since the armorer would do it so much better. Be Safe,

I was standing beside a man at a Charleston Gun Show 20 or so years ago. He dropped a Randall Knife he was looking at. He caught it 3 times before it hit the floor. Paid the price every time. Trying to catch a falling gun oughta really be exciting!

 

[mrmike7189]

you must be joking?

I'm still struggling with the idea that anybody actually patronizes Dunkin Donuts, what with their terrible coffee and mediocre doughnuts.

dunkins donuts are the best...their coffee is better than most.
starbucks ,tullys, honeydew,krispy kreme,all tastes burned to me.

 

[dben002]

I am joking....

If it's really busy and you need holes in donuts ......well............

 

[dben002]

dunkins donuts are the best...their coffee is better than most.
starbucks ,tullys, honeydew,krispy kreme,all tastes burned to me.

You obviously NEVER had a Hot&Ready Krispy Kreme straight off the glazing carousel.

 

[mrmike7189]

nutsak holster?

I think the guy had it in his nutsak holster and had an itch!

 

[sigp220.45]

My brother recently retired from one of the intelligence agencies and moved to Colorado. He is also retired from the Air Force. He's not a gun guy, but he got his concealed carry permit. I found him a nice S&W 3953, which is about as simple as it gets for a semi-auto. I got him dummy rounds to practice with until he was comfortable handling it. He went to the range on his own, and told me he liked it.

He visited a couple of weeks ago, and was carrying it chamber empty. He said it was just more comfortable for him that way.

The reality is he lives in a wealthy ski resort town with little to no crime, and is probably ahead of 90 percent of its population by even having a gun nearby. I wouldn't carry that way, but if its how he wants to do it then its not my business. It would take him a second or two to chamber a round in the extremely unlikely event he would need to draw it. The idea a chamber-empty, magazine- full gun is useless just not true.

As for the donut guy, I would guess he picked up the gun and hit the trigger, and is probably wishing he carried chamber-empty too.

 

[Wise_A]

As for the donut guy, I would guess he picked up the gun and hit the trigger, and is probably wishing he carried chamber-empty too.

Then he's come to the wrong conclusion and shouldn't be carrying at all.

 

[wingriderz]

In an earlier post someone said they keep the chamber empty unless or until going into someplace that the weapon might be needed in a hurry. Several well thought out examples followed but allow me to be the voice of experience here. I've "been there" and can tell you there will not be enough time to chamber a round in an emergency. If that is how you carry you might think about a revolver. I don't mean any disrespect, just don't want to see anyone to get hurt.

Looks like he has a thread running stateing that he traded into a revolver .Good for him

 

[wingriderz]

You obviously NEVER had a Hot&Ready Krispy Kreme straight off the glazing carousel.

I ran fleet managment for Krispy Kreme deliverly trucks .From Central Florida and Orlando Aera. It got to the point that my truck techs wouldn't work on trucks due to them being full of roaches. Krispy Kream wouldnt do a thing about it.

 

[rwsmith]

I wonder if this same guy.....

I was standing beside a man at a Charleston Gun Show 20 or so years ago. He dropped a Randall Knife he was looking at. He caught it 3 times before it hit the floor. Paid the price every time. Trying to catch a falling gun oughta really be exciting!

...would fire the gun three times before it hit the floor?