Accuracy is coming: Apex M&P Barrels

[Whitwabit]

Straight from the factory my S&W 40c shoots 1.75 inch groups off hand at 30 feet .. Have never had it shot from a rest but imagine it would shoot 1/2 inch groups at 30 feet if tightened down in a gun rest ....

Maybe I just got an exceptional one ..

 

[Eddie 500]

I can tell you how the Apex gunsmith fit barrel stacks up against the Storm Lake drop in barrel: Storm Lake was returned, (no difference) while the Apex would have to be pried from my cold dead hands. I took my M&P 5" Pro to an indoor range today and took some 25 yard shots (rested) that the staff had to see for themselves. The groups looked more like 7 yard shots.

WOW. That is great news to me. I think I will order one cause what I group now is unacceptable.

 

[Bkreutz]

Straight from the factory my S&W 40c shoots 1.75 inch groups off hand at 30 feet .. Have never had it shot from a rest but imagine it would shoot 1/2 inch groups at 30 feet if tightened down in a gun rest ....

Maybe I just got an exceptional one ..

This thread is about 9mm guns, don't ever hear much about .40 accuracy.

 

[shootingone]

I fitted the gunsmith barrel into my 9L CORE.
Not a big project.
However is the barrel short chambered?
No mention on the packaging nor comment online.
Very little factory ammo will pass the plunk test.
Lands are about .075" from the case end- rough measuring scratch marks on the bullet to case end.
Did I miss something?
I'm not against using a finishing reamer but is there a suggested dimension?

 

[agksimon]

I fitted the gunsmith barrel into my 9L CORE.
Not a big project.
However is the barrel short chambered?
No mention on the packaging nor comment online.
Very little factory ammo will pass the plunk test.
Lands are about .075" from the case end- rough measuring scratch marks on the bullet to case end.
Did I miss something?
I'm not against using a finishing reamer but is there a suggested dimension?

I hadn't checked my Apex gunsmith fit barrel, when I installed it, but it's shot a few hundred rounds of various factory ammo with no malfunctions. I did just check the barrel and all rounds drop in fine.

Are you using reloads? If so, check your diameters and lengths.

 

[kbm6893]

Spending a couple hundred bucks to get an inch closer seems to me to be a waste of time. And since benchrest shooting is without a doubt the most impractical shooting there is, I'm not interested in what the groups shrink to in that scenario.

What I DO care about is :is the gun comfortable? Reliable? Has the features I want? Capable of hitting a paper plate standing at 25 yards?

If so, it's a winner. And the thought of spending 200 bucks on a gun and that already does that just seems like a waste of time and money.

 

[agksimon]

Spending a couple hundred bucks to get an inch closer seems to me to be a waste of time. And since benchrest shooting is without a doubt the most impractical shooting there is, I'm not interested in what the groups shrink to in that scenario.

What I DO care about is :is the gun comfortable? Reliable? Has the features I want? Capable of hitting a paper plate standing at 25 yards?

If so, it's a winner. And the thought of spending 200 bucks on a gun and that already does that just seems like a waste of time and money.

That's because you probably don't shoot competition events (IDPA/USPSA) like some of us do. If you did and shot a few extra points down, because the gun wasn't capable of hitting within the higher scoring ring, you might do what's necessary to correct the problem.

Just because I don't watch baseball, because I think it's a waste of time, doesn't mean others don't enjoy it.

 

[Eddie 500]

Yes, buy the barrel for competition.

Just for plinking keep it bone stock

 

[shootingone]

All factory ammo even had some friends bring over some over to test
So far the only ones that will plunk and spin are
Fed 124, 135, 147 hydra-shok, AmEagle 124 fmj ae9ap
Win 115 silvertips
UZI.Israel Military Industries 124 CMJ

My reloads
147 Xtreme RN max 1.160
147 MG FP 1.104
125 HAP 1.057
124 MG JHP 1.040
124 MG CMJ 1.125
95 MG JHP 1.035
So the theme is -- some round nose work and give a little loading choice and JHP limit the choice for reloads

I have over 12 more factory loads that don't work and 4 that just the variation within a single box some work and some don't.

 

[ELR]

What do you mean plunk & spin. I am thinking of installing the Apex barrel in my M & P. I do not want to install the barrel if I can't shoot factory loads.

 

[shootingone]

Plunk Test, drop a loaded cartridge into the mouth of the loose barrel to confirm case fits into chamber. Spin the cartridge to confirm the bullet doesn't make contact with the lands. Should drop in and out freely and spin freely.
My barrel drops in and out easy but when I spin the cartridge the bullet rubs on the lands leaving a scratch mark around the circumference of the bullet
Push firmly on the back of the cartridge and it will not spin at all.
Push hard and the cartridge jams into the lands and you need a squib rod to drive it out from the muzzle.
Failing to drop in can be case is bulged or the crimp is too little or sometimes too much, among other things.
Failing to drop out, bullet in the lands like me, case is out of square.

 

[ELR]

Thank you Shootingone for the explanation. I will now have to think about who's barrel I will use in my M&P.

 

[shootingone]

If I was you, I would just wait.
I've sent an email to APEX about my experiences and await their reply.

I've tried both match KKM and Wilson drop ins and while they preformed better than the factory 10:1 twist I've got, neither was anything to brag about.
The S&W and Wilson barrels was also short leade but long enough for all the factory ammo I tested in them.
The KKM was as long as my 1911/2011 barrels and could take 1.170" oal jhp without a hitch.
Many subscribe to a short bullet jump from case to barrel for accuracy.

I put off going with another fitted barrel by others waiting for APEX.
Their barrel is really beautiful.
I may just have a off barrel.
I have a bunch of other APEX stuff in my M&Ps and have been very happy with them.
Their trigger and sear kits, springs sets and RAM systems made my M&Ps like a good 1911, light, short crisp triggers with short trigger returns.
The worst that can happen is I take a finish reamer to it and recut the leade longer.

 

[Randy Lee]

If I was you, I would just wait.
I've sent an email to APEX about my experiences and await their reply.

I've tried both match KKM and Wilson drop ins and while they preformed better than the factory 10:1 twist I've got, neither was anything to brag about.
The S&W and Wilson barrels was also short leade but long enough for all the factory ammo I tested in them.
The KKM was as long as my 1911/2011 barrels and could take 1.170" oal jhp without a hitch.
Many subscribe to a short bullet jump from case to barrel for accuracy.

I put off going with another fitted barrel by others waiting for APEX.
Their barrel is really beautiful.
I may just have a off barrel.
I have a bunch of other APEX stuff in my M&Ps and have been very happy with them.
Their trigger and sear kits, springs sets and RAM systems made my M&Ps like a good 1911, light, short crisp triggers with short trigger returns.
The worst that can happen is I take a finish reamer to it and recut the leade longer.

Hello,

It sounds like you might have one with a short throat. I am out of the office at the moment, but it should be easy for us to resolve. Our CS reps will probably forward your issue to me. If you don't hear from anyone by tomorrow, I will be back in the office on Wednesday and will contact you then.

 

[Jamie]

What specifically, is the difference between the semi drop in and the gun smith fit?

 

[Magload]

A lot more fitting.

 

[CALREB]

Well personally my first MP Pro 9mm shot so bad at 25yrds 4"-5" no matter what ammo I put in it, duty, match to handloaded. Thought it had to be a fluke so I bought another 9L , same with a worse trigger. No real complaint as I dont expect a 4-500 dollar , plastic gun to shoot like a P/C gun from the 90's, good home defense guns. But I was a little disappointed that they couldnt hold 2-3" at least with good ammo.
I know some guys who's shorter MPs actually shoot better groups but they are all older guns made when they were first produced ? Also other drop in barrels have been hit or miss for guys I know that shoot them.

I have a friend who has one of Randy's gunsmith fit barrels in his M/P 9 and it shoots 1" easily at 25 yrds with several loads. So I cant wait, as I would like one to shoot in the production class type matches.
At least those folks that like an accurate pistol and like the M/P can now( or in the near future ) have one. Thanks Randy...
I also appreciate the time and extra info you supplied us with on the forum . Bob

 

[pyro]

A question for Randy Lee. How soon will it be until you have a 40 to 9 conversion barrel? You mentioned it as being available in 2016. I definitely will get when if and when they are in production.

 

[Randy Lee]

A question for Randy Lee. How soon will it be until you have a 40 to 9 conversion barrel? You mentioned it as being available in 2016. I definitely will get when if and when they are in production.

I am working on the new drawings now. Because we are in the planning phase of our move out of CA, the machines are tied up with building our inventory of current products. I will try and update everyone here as we get closer to a release date.

 

[Whitwabit]

I had a question about the Apex carry kits for my 40c and e-mailed the company and never got a reply .. so my opinion of their customer service is poor ..

end result I didn't buy their product ..

 

[Randy Lee]

I had a question about the Apex carry kits for my 40c and e-mailed the company and never got a reply .. so my opinion of their customer service is poor ..

end result I didn't buy their product ..

I am sorry that you had that experience with my company.

Our CS Team is usually pretty good, but sometimes things happen. Since I do not know the particulars of your email, or when it was sent, I cannot address your particular instance.

I would encourage anyone who has previously emailed us to follow up if they do not hear from us within 48 hours.

 

[Jamie]

A lot more fitting.

Yeah, kinda figured that. Could you be a bit more specific. I know the semi drop in needs fitting in three areas, what other areas need fitting on the gunsmith version.

 

[agksimon]

Yeah, kinda figured that. Could you be a bit more specific. I know the semi drop in needs fitting in three areas, what other areas need fitting on the gunsmith version.

The gunsmith version has more to remove, mostly on the barrel lug, about .010-.020
Very time consuming, but my factory barrel was quite loose and I didn't want to chance the Apex not having enough adjustment.

 

[Randy Lee]

Yeah, kinda figured that. Could you be a bit more specific. I know the semi drop in needs fitting in three areas, what other areas need fitting on the gunsmith version.

Hi,

The Gunsmith Fit barrel requires fitting in the exact same areas. The critical difference is that the barrel's bottom lug has much more material left on the horizontal surface so that guns with extreme slide to frame vertical tolerances can benefit.

This surface is best adjusted using a mill due to the amount of material and surface area that you have to work with. It will make the fitting time significantly shorter than trying to fit it with a file.

 

[Whitwabit]

The difference in accuracy is due to the tolerances held in making the parts of the gun that lock together .. say you have a tolerance of + or -
.010 or 10 thousandths of an inch .. if one part is on the plus side and the other on the minus the maximum amount the difference would be
.020 .. still in tolerance but on the out side of it ..and thus if you happened to get one like that I would think it would be difficult to hold a good group ..

If you were able to go through parts and mic each one . finding parts that are exact dimensions its likely that gun would pigeon hole shots ..

 

[Mike in Reedley]

My CORE factory barrel had .008 front to back play and on a good day would group 6" from sand bags at 25 yards. I ordered the semi fit barrel and after two try and fit filing applications to the hood oal, I got it fitted. Total time was less than 15 minutes. If you easy the slide forward, you must bump it forward into battery.

I took it to the range today and with Herder's (Cabela's) 115 fmj it shot great with no malfunctions. My 6 minute Burris FFII covers up a 2" aiming dot at 25 yards. No group was over 1 1/2" and the best of four groups was just over 3/4". With this and the forward facing trigger, I'm looking forward to the next Steel Challenge match at the local club.

Thank you so much Randy Lee and the other folks at Apex.

 

[fdw]

I bought a storm lake conversion for my 40. I consider myself at best an average shooter.

I will say I have improved with the storm lake. I sometimes take my 9FS and shoot against my 40 with the SL 9 barrel. I do better with the conversion. However there are a lot of other factors that come into play so even though I think the conversion improves my shooting, I can't prove it.

My thoughts are for the average shooter or lower the barrel shouldn't make any difference.

 

[Magload]

Anytime the gun can shoot a tighter group it is going to help anyone tighten up their group. Don

 

[Magload]

Now if they would come out with a 9mm Pro 5" threaded I would replace my Storm Lake thread. Don

 

[Randy Lee]

Now if they would come out with a 9mm Pro 5" threaded I would replace my Storm Lake thread. Don

First we needed the consumer to feel confident that our barrel does what we say it will do.

It didn't make financial sense to increase an inventory of different barrel configurations if our original launch was a flop.

We also have the obstacle of still being in California. Once we move to our new facility, I can make whatever barrel configuration is most desirable.

I'm even toying with resurrecting the 356 TSW cartridge for my own use...